Dragon Sight change - Just remove positionals already

[Shurrikhan]

but just playing a ninjutsu style button game every 60 seconds just isn't enough.

Tbf, that's only half the optimization that goes into Blitzes. The actual, original point of Perfect Balance is still alive and well -- more so than ever before, actually, as 3 GCDs on a 40s recast timer is pretty much exactly the sweet spot.

But, agreed that Blitzes should not have, and absolutely did not need to, cost us our greater number of positionals.

Food for thought, though: Those virtually always pairing DK with Twin and Boot with True, per the 'standard' rotation / simplified macrorotation, were already re-positioning little more than now.

[VentVanitas]

PB itself is fine, 2 charges with 3 stacks would have been a feature I would've loved to have in previous iterations of the job. I however don't like how barebones Blitz itself feels in anything that isn't speedkilling.

But, agreed that Blitzes should not have, and absolutely did not need to, cost us our greater number of positionals.

What had always bothered me about this decision is that I distinctly remember a lot of us MNK players being disappointed by the removal of raptor form positionals in the EW media tour build, but willing to accept it even if it was still unnecessary- only for EW's release to come out of nowhere with the steel chair. Raptor positionals being removed wouldn't have been enough to compromise the job's playstyle, but they felt the need to overcorrect anyway.

[Shurrikhan]

PB itself is fine, 2 charges with 3 stacks would have been a feature I would've loved to have in previous iterations of the job. I however don't like how barebones Blitz itself feels in anything that isn't speedkilling.

I could agree with that. What I'm satisfied by most is actually the +1 GCD following PB and the impact that it and the 3-GCD PB (4 fluid forms) have on the rotation surrounding those Blitzes.

Personally, I really wanted to see more lengths of Blitzes and/or at least two Blitz options per PB, with Blitzes having synergies with one another that could lead to different branching decision paths of sorts. Would have loved to see Flint Kick stay as just a fast-af burst damage (maybe just after 1 PB GCD) option, Tornado Kick remain even at max level as some alternative, Phantom Rush to be changed to an actual blink-move with i-frames against non-raidwide physical AoEs rather than *just* another identical form of damage, Meteor Stream (with suppression and CC, as redundant as that might typically be), and maybe even getting access to Phantom Flurry / Phantom Kick (w/e the Suzaku channel was called), etc.

What had always bothered me about this decision is that I distinctly remember a lot of us MNK players being disappointed by the removal of raptor form positionals in the EW media tour build, but willing to accept it even if it was still unnecessary- only for EW's release to come out of nowhere with the steel chair. Raptor positionals being removed wouldn't have been enough to compromise the job's playstyle, but they felt the need to overcorrect anyway.

Yep. I wouldn't have felt too bad if Demolish and True Strike didn't have positionals. True Strike's original positional bonus was worth only 2.5% damage, iirc (was 5% added crit chance), and I could have sworn Demolish started with less of a positional bonus than Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, Snap Punch, or obviously Bootshine, and as the seemingly hard-slaps-faces-with-one's-feet DoT... I wouldn't hate to see it lose a positional, especially in a context that'd still have GL (since we'd then be opening with it).

Twin, though? It honestly looks like it's meant to strike kidney and lung together like some manner of 'chi strike', so the flank looked appropriate for it.

[wereotter]

Tbf, that's only half the optimization that goes into Blitzes. The actual, original point of Perfect Balance is still alive and well -- more so than ever before, actually, as 3 GCDs on a 40s recast timer is pretty much exactly the sweet spot.

But, agreed that Blitzes should not have, and absolutely did not need to, cost us our greater number of positionals.

Food for thought, though: Those virtually always pairing DK with Twin and Boot with True, per the 'standard' rotation / simplified macrorotation, were already re-positioning little more than now.

Except you're not using Perfect Balance every 40 seconds. You use it twice in the 2-minute cooldown and hold it to use it again once in the 60 second cooldown, lining up your blitzes with Riddle of Fire. So even if it feels like it *could* be more engaging to use a blitz, because it stacks and, you're incentivized to hold those big attacks until you can buff the damage.

Old positionals, when every skill had one, you'd have to move back and forth a lot more. Dragon kick, twin snakes, sure you'd pair them, and bootshine with true strike, again you'd pair. But you'd still have to move back and forth to get your bootshine and true strike rear position even if you were finishing it up with a snap punch for your third skill rather than just sitting on the flank now and getting the full potency from bootshine and true strike from the boss's flank. Monk rotation now you can sit on the flank for 8/9 skills only moving to the rear now to reapply demolish.

[Shurrikhan]

Except you're not using Perfect Balance every 40 seconds. You use it twice in the 2-minute cooldown and hold it to use it again once in the 60 second cooldown, lining up your blitzes with Riddle of Fire. So even if it feels like it *could* be more engaging to use a blitz, because it stacks and, you're incentivized to hold those big attacks until you can buff the damage.

I never said otherwise. 12 Form-fluid GCDs per 120s, though, is still considerably more than, say, 5 per 90s. (Old PB didn't grant Formless Fist at its end, while modern PB grants one more form-fluid GCD than its number of stacks.)

On average, one per 10s vs. one per 18s. Moreover, even were they the same average frequency, there's more you can rotationally leverage from a smaller number of fluid GCDs at a time, at greater frequency, than a larger number at a time at lesser frequency.

Old positionals, when every skill had one, you'd have to move back and forth a lot more.

That's was my point, though I should have said it more clearly:

Depending on your rotation, non-contextual movement could be very similar to what it is today, because repositioning against, say, a striking dummy is only a matter of the forced moves from flank to rear or from rear to flank, not the number of positionals themselves.

But because fights are NOT actually just "move left one step, move right one step," it made a considerable difference in practice.

If you were using a rotation that was essentially R->F-F-F->R-R->F-F-F-F->R-R-R, etc., the non-contextual repositioning required is surprisingly similar to the current R->A-A-F->A-A-F-A-A-A->R-A-A rotational flow we have today. Though positionals were reduced by two-thirds, repositioning not caused by the target was only reduced by about one-quarter.

Now, if we were still back in Stormblood with its more varied rotations pre-Leaden Fist and slow-downs from TK usage... yeah, then the noncontextual repositioning could be nearer to what you'd expect from the portion of positionals. (Personally, I ran enough SkS to double-Boot/True, so... I often had less forced repositioning between triple TKs than most ShB Monks.)