What is Dark knight for now that War just does everything better?

[RyuDragnier]

Is getting less screwed over (due to a simple lack of 1-minute amp cycles to be awkwardly affected) really "thriving", though?

When the difference between all doing fine and only DRK avoiding being screwed over is DRK being last place or merely competitive at best (since the dps checks are so lenient but DRK's combined mitigation+self-healing still the worst of all tanks by a lot), that hardly seems like "thriving" so much as "occasionally not so badly inferior."

Hoping this makes them look at DRK a LITTLE bit more than usual. Best case it's not that 1m cycle anymore come 7.0. Worst case it still is and we get to see what fresh hells await.

[Shurrikhan]

Hoping this makes them look at DRK a LITTLE bit more than usual. Best case it's not that 1m cycle anymore come 7.0. Worst case it still is and we get to see what fresh hells await.

...Wait...

DRK already has the least demanding 1-minute cycle of any tank barring maybe Warrior (even then, Blood Weapon can be pre-popped far enough in advance to avoid losing MP slaps to a 1-minute jump). That's largely why DRK's getting screwed over less than other jobs in places like P12S.

I mean, we could move BW and/or CnS to 40s CD come 7.0, but... we're already doing better than most for our relative flexibility between two-minute bursts, whenever that flexibility comes in handy. We're just currently being overtaxed for it.

[Eorzean_username]

A brief review indicates that you don’t play in content where the difference between WAR and DRK matter

Are you saying that they don't log in at all?

...Don't just focus on DRK's DPS numbers in Savage. Look also at what a janky mess DRK's personal sustain and utility contribution is in pretty much any content.

Especially: compared to the other Tanks, DRK feels conspicuously awkward when soloing older content and doing Deep Dungeons, and conspicuously more "work" / "vulnerable" when tanking 4-player duties.

Handwaving that sort of concern with a condescending "But that doesn't matter because I feel that content doesn't matter" really isn't a design answer.

If Dark Knight isn't the "master of Tank DPS" (which is a dubious identity to ever create in the first place, frankly), then what justification is there still for handicapping its personal sustainability vs. the other three Tanks?

Especially compared to Warrior, which basically just gets to be immortal for free — a strange design choice, at best.

[Jeeqbit]

Look also at what a janky mess DRK's personal sustain and utility contribution is in pretty much any content.

When I mained dark knight in Shadowbringers, its utility was amazing. I could throw TBN on people and save them, especially the last surviving healer or rezzer. I could use it to prevent Doom from being applied at all in DR. I could use it to prevent knockbacks. Of course there is Reprisal and Dark Missionary, which allowed me to mitigate things enough to save people who had vuln stacks regularly so that they survived with 1-10% health.

I would argue that a shield is often more useful than a heal or % damage reduction when trying to prevent someone from dying though. Raw 10% mitigation sometimes isn't enough if they are low, and heals, especially regens, take time. But a shield like TBN has the potential to save someone by taking the brunt of the damage.

This unique point of DRK was unfortunately destroyed in EW because WAR's Nascent Flash has a shield as well, and it's good because I was able to save someone from an imminent cast with it multiple times through the last week.

Especially: compared to the other Tanks, DRK feels conspicuously awkward when soloing older content and doing Deep Dungeons, and conspicuously more "work" / "vulnerable" when tanking 4-player duties.

However, it's unique. Are you calling for it to be homogenized? A lot of people on these forums are tired of that, yet simultaneously there are posts like this calling for homogenization.

Maybe the problem isn't DRK. Maybe the problem is the others got a bit too powerful and stole too much from eachother.

We could have had WAR not have shields at all in its short mit, we could have had PLD significantly increase its raw % mitigation instead of getting lots of heals so it blocks 100% of the time and buffs just double the block strength. This would have built on their previous identities - WAR as the HP/health leech tank, PLD as the % mitigation tank, and GNB as just having bits of all the tanks. But now they all have eachother's things and are the same except for DRK.

[Coatl]

The more i play, the more annoyed i get by this nagging sense that i'm playing worse Warrior.

You are.

They outperform us in just about everything except for soaking magic tank busters, which we're not even that much better at.

Yep.

Besides that, they have the highest damage, shortest cooldown invuln in the game, best sustain of all tanks, better raid utility.

Correct.

It also does not rely on a 2 minute burst so isn't punished as hard when fights end before their burst.

Uh.

I plan to get into savage next week, but i'm becoming increasingly frustrated with Warrior's state. And feel like i'm just playing worse warrior for no fucking reason.

You are.

So what is the point of Dark knight's existence currently?

Being the 2nd best Tank even with all that.

[Renathras]

Ignoring the massive cultural impact berserk has had on anything fantasy related, I see. Did you not see the days long tribute drk's across all servers paid to the author of berserk when he died?

Ah, yes, because things like Conan The Barbarian never existed. OR BRAVEHEART (based on a historical character and folklore about him dating back centuries).

I'm sorry, but "big strong guy with big weapon" isn't "weeb" or Japanese, even if you think Berserk is the reason for the popularity of the archetype. Pen and Paper RPGs had "big warrior with big sword" as well as "barbarians/berserkers", and the idea of the Viking Berserks has existed for centuries, if not over a thousand years.

Calling DRK "weeb" isn't showing you know culture and stuff, it's showing an ignorance to culture and cultural influences prior to the 1990s.

Honestly, I'd never even heard of Berserk before the server tributes. It's clearly not as universal as you think. I don't deny it's had a cultural impact, but it's hardly the origin of the archetype.

.

Again, Ishgard itself is modeled after medieval Europe, specifically France, with both its knight/Chivalric culture, lance wielding knights, hedge/fallen/lordless knights, proto-Industrial Revolution steam technology and development (MCHs), and divination/occult practices (Tarot card readings). All of the Jobs introduced in HW from Ishgard (note the AST Job is technically the Sharlyan tradition, but it's in conjunction with the Ishgardian school/style in-game) and the marque Job of the expansion and poster-child Job of Ishgard itself, DRG, are all very European themed and inspired.

This includes Dark Knight and the Claymore, a Job wearing heavy armor (very European vs the medium armors worn by the Samurai) and wielding a quintessential European style sword invention of "bigger is better" taken to extremes, that has a clear double-edged design, unlike the single-sided blade swords of similar size and style used in Japan.

.

In short, you have to ignore history to hold the position you do.

EDIT:

DRK is for the devs to destroy and to throw a few of its mechanics into something else. Reprisal and Low Blow were originally from DRK.

WHM says hi.

Seriously, most of WHM's design was copied wholesale to dAST, which also got better versions of the spells. Today, AST has all of WHM's GCDs except Cure 3, and they're either the same (Benefic/Cure 1) or better (everything else; lower MP costs for AST), and up until EW, AST's nuke spell was faster cast than WHM's (even if WHM's did a bit more damage), and Gravity is ARGUABLY better in some cases than Holy because it doesn't require standing in the middle of the pack (Holy is better for 3 Stuns, but after that, it's just a slower cast Art of War/Diskrasia).

Most of the Healer Role actions (Swiftcast and Surecast were originally THM) were stolen from WHM. Repose (useless, but there), Esuna (granted SCH and AST had their own named versions, but we ended up with WHM's and WHM was the first of the three added to the game), and Lucid Dreaming. Cleric Stance for a bit (SB), too.

Granted, SCH was pretty much mugged for abilities by SGE as well, but WHM was mugged by EVERYONE.

Conjurer and Arcanist are there for people who like to play Conjurer and Arcanist.
That's not a valid argument. We don't need a job that is a strictly worse version of another.

1) Conjurer and Arcanist aren't Jobs.
2) DRK isn't "strictly worse version" of any other Tank.
3) Contrary to popular opinion, speaking in hyperbole makes your case weaker and more prone to ridicule, not stronger.

If your main job underperform a little is enough to dissuade you, you don't main DRK. You main META jobs.

QFT

[Ivtrix]

@ChrisRedfield2 I aint quotin that but yes

[Renathras]

...

Is there a TL;DR version?

...or one with paragraph breaks?

Or...actual sentences?

[Padudu]

What in the schizophrenia is this

[Derio]

The difference is only 500dps and the dps check mistake they made last tier is not apparent in this tier so you can play what you want. Unless you are in a parse group that is the only time you are really going to get asked to switch.