What is Dark knight for now that War just does everything better?

[Ivtrix]

The same logic applies. But i'm glad that we can now both see how silly ''Play because you want to play it'' is in a balance discussion.

A brief review indicates that you don’t play in content where the difference between WAR and DRK matter

[RyuDragnier]

A brief review indicates that you don’t play in content where the difference between WAR and DRK matter

Speaking of said content...today's look at the parsing from the first week (up to now) on the Savages. DRK's still the lowest rDPS, and is the 2nd lowest aDPS in all fights except for P12S P1 (where they're #1).

[Ivtrix]

Speaking of said content...today's look at the parsing from the first week (up to now) on the Savages. DRK's still the lowest rDPS, and is the 2nd lowest aDPS in all fights except for P12S P1 (where they're #1).

Tapping into the unholy dark magics, it appears that DRK is 200 dps behind WAR if you look at 75th percentile. That’s a difference of 2.5%. In a tier where world proggers reported having multiple deaths and DD in the final boss and still hit 3% enrage.

Were this abyssos maybe the argument would be a little stronger. But the dps checks this tier are very lenient. I see it as a non issue personally.

[ForteNightshade]

Speaking of said content...today's look at the parsing from the first week (up to now) on the Savages. DRK's still the lowest rDPS, and is the 2nd lowest aDPS in all fights except for P12S P1 (where they're #1).

Dark Knight is in a very awkward balancing spot. It thrives in scenarios where the boss becomes untargetable within one minute windows. Which is why it absolutely dominated both Dragonsong and Omega. Which is why you're seeing it pull ahead in P12S. They're clearly balancing with that in mind... which causes a problem when only P12S has that sort of downtime. Technically, P9S does as well but the timing puts it at a two minute window, so Dark Knight wants to hold resources for buffs instead of going nuts like it can in P12 or Ultimate.

Come 7.0, they need to either reduce the number of oGCDs Dark Knights or figure out a way to balance the other three tanks so this doesn't happen. Otherwise, we're going to see a constantly back and forth.

[Shurrikhan]

Dark Knight is in a very awkward balancing spot. It thrives in scenarios where the boss becomes untargetable within one minute windows.

Is getting less screwed over (due to a simple relative lack of 1-minute amp cycles a la FoF/NM to be awkwardly affected) really "thriving", though?

When the difference between all doing fine and only DRK avoiding being screwed over is DRK being last place or merely competitive at best (since the dps checks are so lenient but DRK's combined mitigation+self-healing still the worst of all tanks by a lot), that hardly seems like "thriving" so much as "occasionally not so badly inferior."

[RyuDragnier]

Is getting less screwed over (due to a simple lack of 1-minute amp cycles to be awkwardly affected) really "thriving", though?

When the difference between all doing fine and only DRK avoiding being screwed over is DRK being last place or merely competitive at best (since the dps checks are so lenient but DRK's combined mitigation+self-healing still the worst of all tanks by a lot), that hardly seems like "thriving" so much as "occasionally not so badly inferior."

Hoping this makes them look at DRK a LITTLE bit more than usual. Best case it's not that 1m cycle anymore come 7.0. Worst case it still is and we get to see what fresh hells await.

[Shurrikhan]

Hoping this makes them look at DRK a LITTLE bit more than usual. Best case it's not that 1m cycle anymore come 7.0. Worst case it still is and we get to see what fresh hells await.

...Wait...

DRK already has the least demanding 1-minute cycle of any tank barring maybe Warrior (even then, Blood Weapon can be pre-popped far enough in advance to avoid losing MP slaps to a 1-minute jump). That's largely why DRK's getting screwed over less than other jobs in places like P12S.

I mean, we could move BW and/or CnS to 40s CD come 7.0, but... we're already doing better than most for our relative flexibility between two-minute bursts, whenever that flexibility comes in handy. We're just currently being overtaxed for it.

[Eorzean_username]

A brief review indicates that you don’t play in content where the difference between WAR and DRK matter

Are you saying that they don't log in at all?

...Don't just focus on DRK's DPS numbers in Savage. Look also at what a janky mess DRK's personal sustain and utility contribution is in pretty much any content.

Especially: compared to the other Tanks, DRK feels conspicuously awkward when soloing older content and doing Deep Dungeons, and conspicuously more "work" / "vulnerable" when tanking 4-player duties.

Handwaving that sort of concern with a condescending "But that doesn't matter because I feel that content doesn't matter" really isn't a design answer.

If Dark Knight isn't the "master of Tank DPS" (which is a dubious identity to ever create in the first place, frankly), then what justification is there still for handicapping its personal sustainability vs. the other three Tanks?

Especially compared to Warrior, which basically just gets to be immortal for free — a strange design choice, at best.

[Jeeqbit]

Look also at what a janky mess DRK's personal sustain and utility contribution is in pretty much any content.

When I mained dark knight in Shadowbringers, its utility was amazing. I could throw TBN on people and save them, especially the last surviving healer or rezzer. I could use it to prevent Doom from being applied at all in DR. I could use it to prevent knockbacks. Of course there is Reprisal and Dark Missionary, which allowed me to mitigate things enough to save people who had vuln stacks regularly so that they survived with 1-10% health.

I would argue that a shield is often more useful than a heal or % damage reduction when trying to prevent someone from dying though. Raw 10% mitigation sometimes isn't enough if they are low, and heals, especially regens, take time. But a shield like TBN has the potential to save someone by taking the brunt of the damage.

This unique point of DRK was unfortunately destroyed in EW because WAR's Nascent Flash has a shield as well, and it's good because I was able to save someone from an imminent cast with it multiple times through the last week.

Especially: compared to the other Tanks, DRK feels conspicuously awkward when soloing older content and doing Deep Dungeons, and conspicuously more "work" / "vulnerable" when tanking 4-player duties.

However, it's unique. Are you calling for it to be homogenized? A lot of people on these forums are tired of that, yet simultaneously there are posts like this calling for homogenization.

Maybe the problem isn't DRK. Maybe the problem is the others got a bit too powerful and stole too much from eachother.

We could have had WAR not have shields at all in its short mit, we could have had PLD significantly increase its raw % mitigation instead of getting lots of heals so it blocks 100% of the time and buffs just double the block strength. This would have built on their previous identities - WAR as the HP/health leech tank, PLD as the % mitigation tank, and GNB as just having bits of all the tanks. But now they all have eachother's things and are the same except for DRK.