Zodiark's Codex entry what do we think about it?

[Brinne]

Don't forget about the researcher doing experiments by hand in Elpis that are on one of the far off and can't reach due to map boundaries floating islands. Where they're seen as a bunch of weirdos.

Ooh, the Cthonic Horns! I loved those guys and was really hoping we might get some more content with them, since they have a whole section of the map to themselves, but alas, I guess it was not to be.

The best part about them was how snobby they were right back to the Ancients who were snobby at them. Wasn't one of them all "oh god not Azem" when you first talk to them too?

...? I may have missed that!

I don't think I did finish those Elpis quests, come to think of it.

They have a sightseeing log too!

The researchers of this small facility are unlike their colleagues in that they seek to manifest new creations without the aid of creation magicks. Their natural breeding program pairs creatures with differing characteristics, relying purely on chance to conceive heretofore unimagined possibilities.

EDIT: YEAH!!! re: Azem

Azem? What in the blazes are you doing here? Hold on─ You seem...thinner somehow.

Hmm... You have much in common with him but it's clear you're not one of us. A familiar perhaps?

I suppose it's just like him to send one of his minions to poke its nose into our affairs. But since you're here, instead of hanging around like a bad smell, why don't you make yourself useful?

god i love the ancients so much

EDIT II:

Yep, seen as weird aberrations to the normal way things are done on Elpis because their methods allow for variable outcomes and mutations that the researchers weren't aiming for - the implication that these researchers are seen as purposefully using the less effective and efficient methods just to be different and that creating something that doesn't follow your plans and isn't in your control is something that can and should be avoided.

As usual, the hard framing of the Ancients of scarily judging anyone who dares step out of line as "weird aberrations" is pretty exaggerated, if you actually look at the text, though yes, most of them can't immediately see the point of doing things this way. Considering what a (hilarious) jerk the Cthonic Horns guy is, I'd say they're pretty nice about it, all things considered, lol.

[Lunaxia]

They have a sightseeing log too!

There's lore behind one of my favourite spots in the game?!

...I will not resub... I will not resub... I will not resub...

[Brinne]

it was a long shot but i really wanted them to be one of the tribe quest chains or at least a custom delivery ;_;

but since they are not, consider your unsub status to be safe since you can just look up the text instead lmao?

[Lunaxia]

Considering what a (hilarious) jerk the Cthonic Horns guy is, I'd say they're pretty nice about it, all things considered, lol.

I mean, you could understand why it would be a little weird, from an Ancient's perspective, when their method of research would provide results so quickly and meticulously. I don't know why it would be strange for them to think him a bit of an oddball, even if we can understand the reasoning behind it (particularly since society in general seems to be valuing a "going back to basics" approach to living right now.)

On a related note, I wrote some Amaurot-centered drabble a while ago involving Ancients who refused to use creation magic as part of their work, and I can't tell you how much joy it brings me that hipster Ancients are actually canon.

god i love the ancients so much

I just find them so ridiculously charming and endearing, it's a little hard to fathom why they're received with such antipathy in some quarters. To each their own, I suppose.

And true, I hadn't realised I could go through the side quests by zone! Time for some reading, I think...

[Yuella]

I just find them so ridiculously charming and endearing, it's a little hard to fathom why they're received with such antipathy in some quarters. To each their own, I suppose.

And true, I hadn't realised I could go through the side quests by zone! Time for some reading, I think...

They force conformity on everyone (known since Shadowbringers in Amaurot when they make everyone where the same type of clothing) and when someone like Hermes has a different mindset, he's treated like a weirdo.

[Lunaxia]

They force conformity on everyone (known since Shadowbringers in Amaurot when they make everyone where the same type of clothing)

We don't have nearly enough information to make any clear judgement on that. All we know is that it's generally expected that Amaurotines wear the same garb, due to the cultural belief that disparity between individuals breeds conflict. We have no idea as to the views of the general populace, the popularity behind such reasoning or even the supposed consequences of doing otherwise, and interestingly, everyone somehow seems to forget the second half of that quest wherein the other shade is actually quite supportive and open-minded regarding what we're wearing.

It's fine if you personally find such practices stifling or conformist, but there's nothing to suggest that they're having conformity forcefully thrust upon them anywhere and it just feels like more of the "controlling fascists" rhetoric used to deprive them of any humanity whatsoever.

and when someone like Hermes has a different mindset, he's treated like a weirdo.

Yes, he's treated like such a weirdo, that his colleagues frequently fuss over him and worry about how he's doing, his state of mind and whether or not he's taking care of his health. Such a weirdo, that they continue to assent to his requests for further research and do as much as they can to spare a concept being unmade, knowing just how much it distresses him. Such a weirdo, that even after his outbursts, they still show him empathy, and go on to offer him a place on the highest seat of authority in the nation, if not the world.

Yeah, I'd compare it to someone riding a horse for transportation nowadays...

Exactly. There are critical takes about the Ancients that are accurate, and that the story does clearly call attention to - they are very bureaucratic, by-the-book and hyper-efficient, often to the detriment of creativity or innovation, and at times this does typically lead them to be fairly narrow-minded. But they're also quick to acknowledge this once it's pointed out, and come to accept their short-comings and view them as such. Nor is there any shortage of maverick or, er, original sorts who are more than happy to do to their own thing either, and they don't seem to show any fear or trepidation over the consequences of doing so. Overall, the Ancients' attitudes towards more "unique" ways of thinking pretty much mirrors our own when we come up against something unexpected, really: "uh... okay? You do you, then..." and I don't really get how there's anything inherently wrong or unexpected about that.

...Hm? You're looking a bit unwell. You must've gotten the secretion on you, you poor thing. We'd best treat you at once.
There, you'll be fine now. You did well to endure the pain, but you should've used the balm. Remember to do so next time, all right?

Damn them! Does their lack of empathy and disregard for life know no bounds?!

[Brinne]

I mean, you could understand why it would be a little weird, from an Ancient's perspective, when their method of research would provide results so quickly and meticulously. I don't know why it would be strange for them to think him a bit of an oddball, even if we can understand the reasoning behind it (particularly since society in general seems to be valuing a "going back to basics" approach to living right now.)

Yeah, I'd compare it to someone riding a horse for transportation nowadays versus using a car, or in a less extreme example, communicating through letters and faxes instead of email or text message. (And it's not like the Cthonic Horns are outlaws or banned or anything! They have their own research facility on their own island, and they're known throughout Elpis! No one is even hostile to the idea of trying something they've come up with!) The horse-rider and letter-writer aren't wrong, per se, and yes, there are advantages on both a micro and macro level to appreciate to not go for the most "efficient" way each time. But it's also a far cry from a black and white issue.

I will say I actually don't disagree with, of the "lessons" the narrative tries to spin about Amaurot, the point that culturally they seem inclined to under-appreciate the potential an unexpected outcome may present if one thinks outside the box (although obviously that principle still has its passionate advocates, like the aforementioned Cthonic Hipsters or the Firebrand Amaurotine from Emet-Selch's city.) But it's also not weird, let alone creepy or oppressive, for other people to think that kind of fixation sort of odd and not really get the point at a glance. It's pretty normal, just in a fantasy context. Heck, barely so, when you consider this quest revolves around a piece of fruit and compare the Discourse around GMOs and such in our own world.

I've done the Elpis side-quests, but it's been a long time, and re-reading some of them is just reminding me all over again how much I love the Ancients and what excitable, sweet, well-meaning nerds most of them really are. Wait, what's this--

Well now, there's a familiar I'm not familiar with. ...Ahem. Apologies, I couldn't help myself.

I see... all this time, I was wrong... they all needed to be exterminated after all...