Revert Shatter back to the Original Map

[Archeron]

The thing about the new shatter is that not only does it not encourage PvP, people are not pvping on it. Everytime I queue for it I see people running past each other on opposing teams, theres a thousand bards just plonking crystals the entire game.

But I guess we can't have PvP. Can't wait for borderland ruins to come back as another "Whack the pinata for points!" map.

Wheres our king of the hill type maps? Why not innovate and put a capture the flag style map? How about an all out deathmatch for points, no PvE included.

I think the PvP devs need to go out and play other MMORPG's, and experience what works, and what doesn't work. Steal, and innovate on their good ideas and throw whatever doesn't work in the garbage.

[Bergfinn]

I think the PvP devs need to go out and play other MMORPG's, and experience what works, and what doesn't work. Steal, and innovate on their good ideas and throw whatever doesn't work in the garbage.

Funny enough, on the jp topic one of the most upvoted posts was a suggestion about having a dedicated dev team and director for pvp only bc it's clear who is currently at the position is completely missing the mark not only due shatter changes but also the YOLO balance on the jobs so far.

I played it the other day for the first time, and they really did fix a lot of issues people were complaining about. As for me not having MNK bridge trolls baiting my team's noobs was great. There was a decent amount of pvp just none of the big standoff in the middle where one team willingly sandwiches themselves. That I do not miss.

Those were players' fault, not old shatter, even bc all this happens on all maps, not only there. The only true issues the map really had were small ices spawning before the first big one at the start of the map baiting people off and, some jobs (and their healers), would have a extra hard time during the AoE fiesta on the active big ice - and those were minor issues that barely affected the gameplay at all.

It would be the same if I started to ask for the devs make onsal like the new shatter just bc too many people doesn't look at the score or even at the map to see where to go or what team to prioritize as target or even bc people get baited by a single PLD roaming the map when the most dangerous thing they can do is stun a single person with shield bash every 15 seconds.

[Elfidan]

Those were players' fault, not old shatter, even bc all this happens on all maps, not only there. The only true issues the map really had were small ices spawning before the first big one at the start of the map baiting people off and, some jobs (and their healers), would have a extra hard time during the AoE fiesta on the active big ice - and those were minor issues that barely affected the gameplay at all.

I would say yes and no. Strictly speaking it's their fault, but they aren't taught what to do in the PVP maps. Square is really bad about PVP instructions. How many people just skip the guide, or outright have it silenced because it's so overbearing in PVE? The problem is trying to explain to newer players mid match they will never get the better of that MNK MCH etc. seldom hits home but also wastes your attention as well effectively downing your team by two players.

It would be the same if I started to ask for the devs make onsal like the new shatter just bc too many people doesn't look at the score or even at the map to see where to go or what team to prioritize as target or even bc people get baited by a single PLD roaming the map when the most dangerous thing they can do is stun a single person with shield bash every 15 seconds.

They kind of addressed this with the HUD scoreboard change. The quest log scoreboard was pretty terrible and overdue for an overhaul. I wish we could figure out the map thing, but I think something akin to hall of the novice for PVP would help both of these issues.

[Bergfinn]

I would say yes and no. Strictly speaking it's their fault, but they aren't taught what to do in the PVP maps. Square is really bad about PVP instructions. How many people just skip the guide, or outright have it silenced because it's so overbearing in PVE? The problem is trying to explain to newer players mid match they will never get the better of that MNK MCH etc. seldom hits home but also wastes your attention as well effectively downing your team by two players.

That's I agree, tbh they should copy GW2 structured PvP (they are kinda mini frontlines with two teams), where soon you enter the match a pop up appears on your screen briefly explaining how to deal with the map objectives, giving a simple but easy to understand directions.

At the same time, in terms of skill and how job works in pvp, a lot only comes to test and practice, everyone will commit mistakes gradually learn from them. (and since we are from the same datacenter, most of the people who ignores and go full yolo/jebaited aren't even new players, may the Twelve have mercy for us)

Now for the HUD, one of the very first thing people found out is how to hide it due "being too ugly on their clean UI", the same reason they also hide the duty list where the old score board is located... (again may the Twelve have mercy for us)

pre 6.1 FLs was the exact same stuff. Rose tinted glasses much.

The biggest issue pre 6.1 FL were white mages being almost invincible divine beings that needed 10+ people to focus on them to get killed... And on 6.1 the devs addressed the issue giving them not only the best cc in the game (imp) but also the best LB in the game, a 40 yalm kamehameha with really fast recharge that did hit like a truck, stuns everything that got hit by it and also heals your party.

[Cidel]

This person making that reddit post assumes that Frontline players Understand the objective, and how points are rewarded/taken away. The vast majority of people just doing frontlines for the roulette have no idea about any of this, and honestly they don't care. This would be different if we were talking about a more skilled group of players perhaps the likes of CC or Ranked.

PvP maps need to be accessible, and easily understood by people who are half-paying attention. If you give the vast majority of Frontline players the choice they're just going to plonk away at ice rather than attack other players, and thats the problem with this map. Nobody is doing PvP.

Unfortunately yes, most of the lukewarm bodies (mindless fodder) queuing Shatter don't actually understand anything beyond "hit ice, get points" thinking that is the sole objective in the mode. But even if the ice spawned less frequently, these are the same people that spend the whole game with no Battle High because they have no sense of awareness or Recuperate isn't a thing for them (ever see someone in your party die slowly with a full MP bar? it's painful). They're in every mode. So naturally this mode enables those people to run back and forth between ice and the only PvP they engage in is when they've somehow wandered near another team and someone attacks them and they fold. I don't know if the devs created this new Shatter to cater to the people who don't even know what their job's "burst" is, but from my experience, the team that has the aggressive players charging in and steamrolling the mindless fodder and accumulating Battle High nearly always ends up winning.

[Elfidan]

At the same time, in terms of skill and how job works in pvp, a lot only comes to test and practice, everyone will commit mistakes gradually learn from them. (and since we are from the same datacenter, most of the people who ignores and go full yolo/jebaited aren't even new players, may the Twelve have mercy for us)

I guess it's fairer to say new to PVP. Mainly people drawn in by promises of series rewards and the like.

Now for the HUD, one of the very first thing people found out is how to hide it due "being too ugly on their clean UI", the same reason they also hide the duty list where the old score board is located... (again may the Twelve have mercy for us)

Yeah, I believe it and it causes me mental anguish.