Revert Shatter back to the Original Map

[RyanCousland]

pre 6.1 FLs was the exact same stuff. Rose tinted glasses much.

Not saying there weren't problems with pre 6.1 but at least each class had single target and aoe abilities whereas now some classes have more aoe capabilities than others plus the latency/lag or wutever you wanna call it wasn't as bad and roles had better utility all which is not present in today's FL

[Cidel]

Worth dropping this here, I think:

"The new Shatter, and why you're playing it wrong"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ying_it_wrong/

[Archeron]

Worth dropping this here, I think:

"The new Shatter, and why you're playing it wrong"
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ying_it_wrong/

This person making that reddit post assumes that Frontline players Understand the objective, and how points are rewarded/taken away. The vast majority of people just doing frontlines for the roulette have no idea about any of this, and honestly they don't care. This would be different if we were talking about a more skilled group of players perhaps the likes of CC or Ranked.

PvP maps need to be accessible, and easily understood by people who are half-paying attention. If you give the vast majority of Frontline players the choice they're just going to plonk away at ice rather than attack other players, and thats the problem with this map. Nobody is doing PvP.

[HermitUK]

This person making that reddit post assumes that Frontline players Understand the objective, and how points are rewarded/taken away. The vast majority of people just doing frontlines for the roulette have no idea about any of this, and honestly they don't care. This would be different if we were talking about a more skilled group of players perhaps the likes of CC or Ranked.

PvP maps need to be accessible, and easily understood by people who are half-paying attention. If you give the vast majority of Frontline players the choice they're just going to plonk away at ice rather than attack other players, and thats the problem with this map. Nobody is doing PvP.

An easy fix for this would be to add score to the Floating Damage Numbers and kill feed in the chat. Players know what an ice is worth because the chat log tells them; if players saw a "+10" over enemy players as they died and a "-5" over their own head when they died, it might help convey why PvP matters.

I'm trying to make a habit of snipping scoreboards so I can get a better feel for the scoring breakdown, but I've seen a few teams doing the full PvP approach and it is very effective:

[Rexxus]

An easy fix for this would be to add score to the Floating Damage Numbers and kill feed in the chat. Players know what an ice is worth because the chat log tells them; if players saw a "+10" over enemy players as they died and a "-5" over their own head when they died, it might help convey why PvP matters.

I'm trying to make a habit of snipping scoreboards so I can get a better feel for the scoring breakdown, but I've seen a few teams doing the full PvP approach and it is very effective:

I've also been keeping track of the post-screen data. I'm up to 50 matches of Shatter since the revamp and in 48/50 of those - the team with the highest 'Data Retrieved from Enemy Forces' (IE: A more pvp focused team), was the winner.

96%

To anyone who is trying to make the claim that new Shatter is 'too PVE' - It isn't. Its incredibly frustrating to have half of your team running around gathering small ice, when they should be focused on fighting enemy teams - yes.

EDIT: What is truly frustrating about this map, and has always been frustrating (even in its previous iteration) - is that you can tell you are on a losing team within minutes of starting the match. Usually by the end of the first big ice exchange. And without one of the other two teams just completely falling apart, you have almost zero chance of recovery and are forced to just kind of go through the motions for another 10 minutes of a losing match. Which, for anyone who actually cares about wins, is incredibly frustrating.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Not saying there weren't problems with pre 6.1 but at least each class had single target and aoe abilities whereas now some classes have more aoe capabilities than others plus the latency/lag or wutever you wanna call it wasn't as bad and roles had better utility all which is not present in today's FL

I'd rather deal with all that than the return of the fake Melee, Piercing Talon Dragoon or Phantom Dart + Addle on caster role. Or zero punishment phys ranged hitting GCDs by bobbing and weaving back and forth from a wall.

With all due respect, it is best to look at what used to be without rose-tinted glasses.

[Valence]

Not saying there weren't problems with pre 6.1 but at least each class had single target and aoe abilities whereas now some classes have more aoe capabilities than others plus the latency/lag or wutever you wanna call it wasn't as bad and roles had better utility all which is not present in today's FL

Role utility was a lot more cancerous with healers. Everybody seems to have forgotten how having a pocket healer that had the ability to spamm heals AND rescue you when shit hits the fan literally made you almost invincible. Those kinds of BH5 players were literally playing on god mode.

And then the pvp reworks before mid ShB it was no medkits at all, so it was essentially the team fielding 2-3 healers vs the one fielding none that was guaranteed a win.

[maximesan514]

Role utility was a lot more cancerous with healers. Everybody seems to have forgotten how having a pocket healer that had the ability to spamm heals AND rescue you when shit hits the fan literally made you almost invincible. Those kinds of BH5 players were literally playing on god mode.

And then the pvp reworks before mid ShB it was no medkits at all, so it was essentially the team fielding 2-3 healers vs the one fielding none that was guaranteed a win.

Sorry but I was playing a Monk solo no pre-made and it was perfectly fine, matter of fact, every class was balanced and you could out do everyone with pretty much every class, maybe RDM was bad, that was about it.

I think you are wearing your pink glass if you cannot admit that this frontline pvp is completely busted/imbalanced/boring literally 3 button pressing no skills only premade sync. zzzz

[Valence]

Sorry but I was playing a Monk solo no pre-made and it was perfectly fine, matter of fact, every class was balanced and you could out do everyone with pretty much every class, maybe RDM was bad, that was about it.

I think you are wearing your pink glass if you cannot admit that this frontline pvp is completely busted/imbalanced/boring literally 3 button pressing no skills only premade sync. zzzz

I never ever asserted anywhere that this version of FLs is not busted/imbalanced. I always stated that it's been the same old crap since the beginning, every time for various different reasons. HW because pve kits were completely unsuited and imbalanced for pvp, SB because it was balanced for Feast, and healers had the same kind of weight they had in Feast with no control of who had the better ones or the most of them, ShB was a little less of a mess because of the introduction of medkits and the removal of the rampant crowd control that plagued SB FLs (+ the introduction of cc resistances) but on the other hand it was impossible to secure kills with the increase of innate damage resists, EW has less healing issues but crowd control and especially LBs are out of control.

I do think you do have very rose tinted glasses if you don't remember the meta of older expansions, notably how busted Nin was in SB FLs, or how busted DRG was in ShB FLs for instance, while MCH (and some others) was the laughing stock of both Feast and FLs.

It's never been balanced. It's always been a clownfiesta, especially the 24v24v24 mode, which we unfortunately inherited.

I do agree that FLs could do way better, but I still think they fill their quota of mindless fun for a lot of players in their dailies.

Edit: also had a good laugh at the amount of buttons, SB had the same amount if not less than the current EW pvp jobs, and whiel they added a bit more to ShB, it didn't make the kits more interesting on the other hand.

[RyanCousland]

I'd rather deal with all that than the return of the fake Melee, Piercing Talon Dragoon or Phantom Dart + Addle on caster role. Or zero punishment phys ranged hitting GCDs by bobbing and weaving back and forth from a wall.

With all due respect, it is best to look at what used to be without rose-tinted glasses.

Not really rose tinted glasses as i stated what made pre 6.1 better and considering your trading complaints of drg piercing talon with everyone else's issues with DRG, sam and nin LB, also how is changing brd now acceptable means of progress but yet this wasn't possible to do to alleviate the supposed issue you have/had as I said pre 6.1 had issues but comparatively it was better