What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Vyrerus]

safe space/self-quarantine thread

Hardly. It's just a thread where you can be comfortable in speaking ill of Endwalker. Which actually gets a target painted on your back (if you make enough good points).

I have the most cursory relationship with the folks in this thread and the Discord server that's being talked about. Yet, just by associating with these lovely folk at all(and they are actually all quite lovely and sensible, though a bit heavy/more passionate than me), people went out of their way to look into me on Twitter(I mean, it's not hard to find me, but still) and photoshop my fiancée into porno scenes, while simultaneously disparaging her appearance.

Like it's not really quarantine when it's a public space / whoever feels like dunking on us this week comes in. You have but to look back on most pages in this thread to see people saying it's an invalid thread for invalid people spouting invalid opinions. I mean, hell, that's what's happening right now with EliaStormblade.

As it turns out, it's just a center for, "people you're allowed to hate."

[Lunaxia]

Hardly. It's just a thread where you can be comfortable in speaking ill of Endwalker.

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

[Kazhar]

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

I'd say both but leaning on the latter. They just want a target and pretend to have moral high ground (while going on unfiltered transphobic tirades, truly ironic).
Having full access to the discord history like some of us do, the leaker had enough context to see that the "brigading" in Pint's video was really 3 people arguing in circle in one comment chain. Yet they felt their epic infiltration mission lacked spice so they grasped at every straw possible to make it bigger. (with good amount of real life fanfiction to fill the blanks) Just go on YouTube and just see for yourself what the "raiding" amounted to. Even out of context, that quote, which is pretty much the one thing they have against us, was a clear exageration.
It's absolutely nothing compared to whenever MrHappy or Zepla link this very thread for clicks, yet you don't see them complaining about that.

[Xeronia]

*sigh* lucky you. I don't have RL friends to rant to since all of them doesn't even play games (and the one who does don't like MMO). Once I foolishly rant to big ffxiv community place (reddit, reddit discord, twitter) and, well, I quickly learn how this playerbase treat minority (of opinion). So yeah, while it's not perfect, and I too occasionally went into argument/fight with people there, I'm thankful that place exist. Otherwise I'll go crazy.

Oh don't feel too bad. I just have a real stubborn set of friends determined to have fun with the MSQ and thus stupid outfits, gotta make it fun somehow.

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

Honestly I would say things are getting better as you can pretty much say you found the patch content story underwhelming and no one would really bat an eyelash at you, at least to what I have noticed myself.

I do hope those unhappy are still trying to find something they like about the game or have found something new to enjoy elsewhere. I myself intend to see the Duty Support changes and thus making an alt to play casually through the game with. I also have just picked up some other stuff myself while waiting on FF16.

Oh and as I just remembered it is today if any of you are trying savage this tier good luck to you and I hope it is as good as Normal was, it may not be my cup of tea but I hope those doing it enjoy it.

[ZavosEsperian]

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

I'd say both but leaning on the latter.

Basically what Kazhar said here is what I have observed. I prefer not voicing my opinion often when it comes to EW. That being said, I do view the expansion as a whole misses the marks set by previous expansions, story not being an exception.

There are quite a few adamant defenders of EW and some of them take fanatical stances/approaches to defend their views and/or make unsubstantiated claims about those with viewpoints negative of EW. Thus, it can make it rather difficult to be critical of EW since some spaces have more of these individuals where topics devolve into pointless shouting and name calling on the internet rather than having an actual discussion and coming to a reasonable understanding, as I cannot expect people to disregard what they experienced over what I have in terms of EW.

Trolls also make up a fair chunk of people who instigate due to having nothing better to do and having a fair amount of guaranteed replies when they enter specific spaces. I would say there are more of them than not based on some of the posts I have seen being more bait than actual post, but that is my opinion on that matter.

[R041]

Honestly I would say things are getting better as you can pretty much say you found the patch content story underwhelming and no one would really bat an eyelash at you, at least to what I have noticed myself.

To be fair though, we've been able to comfortably criticize MSQ until Shadowbringers happened. After that? It's been literal hell trying to even say 'Stormblood bad'.. Because Shadowbringers somehow cleansed all of ARR-Stormblood. It was SO GOOD, "You have to like everything before it, because it sets up the story!"

They often forget all 3 ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood had horrible pacing issues for the majority of their story. There are some good nuggets in there, but they could have been had for far less linear time and text.

[Atelier-Bagur]

To be fair though, we've been able to comfortably criticize MSQ until Shadowbringers happened. After that? It's been literal hell trying to even say 'Stormblood bad'.. Because Shadowbringers somehow cleansed all of ARR-Stormblood. It was SO GOOD, "You have to like everything before it, because it sets up the story!"

They often forget all 3 ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood had horrible pacing issues for the majority of their story. There are some good nuggets in there, but they could have been had for far less linear time and text.

I still count Shadowbringers among the terrible pacing. Truth is, every expansion suffers from pacing issues and its mostly because of the quest design being not fun at all. Sure there are story bits that drag on (like that damn Talos section TWICE) but if everything in between was sprinkled with fun battle content then it wouldnt be bad and the story would arguably be a lot better for it.

This is why I dont think FFXIV's story is THAT good. Its above average but what makes a game story compelling is when you also make it fun to go through. This is why other single player rpgs have FFXIV beat in its content because they make sure the gameplay experience is tailored to go along with the narrative, but the msq is bogged down by "talk to this npc" numerous times and its just not a good thing to swallow.

This problem isnt just EW related.

[R041]

I still count Shadowbringers among the terrible pacing. Truth is, every expansion suffers from pacing issues and its mostly because of the quest design being not fun at all. Sure there are story bits that drag on (like that damn Talos section TWICE) but if everything in between was sprinkled with fun battle content then it wouldnt be bad and the story would arguably be a lot better for it.

This is why I dont think FFXIV's story is THAT good. Its above average but what makes a game story compelling is when you also make it fun to go through. This is why other single player rpgs have FFXIV beat in its content because they make sure the gameplay experience is tailored to go along with the narrative, but the msq is bogged down by "talk to this npc" numerous times and its just not a good thing to swallow.

This problem isnt just EW related.

I agree with you there, I've never really loved the MSQ - Liked sometimes, sure. But I'm not big on visual novels. Most old players I know didn't really like the MSQ itself, because it was mostly just creating a backdrop of Final Fantasy, which was good enough. But now it's trying to be the thing? When we know it's not even that good of a thing, let alone the thing to be good? (lol)

It feels like they have 90% writers and 10% designers working on MSQ, and that means there's not much lasting or engaging content in there. I truly don't understand why they've put all their eggs in the basket of just making MSQ the longest visual novel to ever exist. It doesn't even really compete with most of the mainlines for writing, to me anyway. It's long, but that doesn't mean it's good, because most of it's just pure exposition and filler. The arc has overstayed it's welcome, and it's always had major pacing issues.


Edit: When you realize that I barely enjoy the MSQ, and I don't do Extreme/Savage.. You'll understand why I'm frustrated. Prob thinking "What the shit do you even do then?" Exactly. Wtf do we do, when we don't babytown the MSQ, or no-life raid.

Also, watching the world race right now - It's funny, 'cause there was a WoW player on talking about how XIV doesn't have a ramp up from Normal to Savage content, so that makes it a bit tougher. Then the other guests gleefully explain that's why XIV is better. ? ? ? ? ?

[Lunaxia]

Oh don't feel too bad. I just have a real stubborn set of friends determined to have fun with the MSQ and thus stupid outfits, gotta make it fun somehow.

I can't help but feel it's a little less a case of "things are just getting better" - the forums went really off the rails with the mud-slinging prior to 6.4's release - and more that previously, people with more positive inclinations towards the story were "this is fine"-ing the MSQ and holding off on criticism for what they presumed would be an eventual pay-off, only to have another patch offer... really not much of anything at all, which has led to more grumbling in a good chunk of the playerbase and by default made taking a more critical look at the game suddenly much more common and acceptable. There's still an air of bitterness about though, and some players still can't help but get in digs, as you can see here.

Personally, I am out - my sub actually ran out several days prior to 6.4's release after I resubbed in an effort to get myself through the MSQ for Panda, but I just... couldn't justify spending more money on the incredibly high likelihood I would be disappointed again, so I caught some streams, realised I was right to save my money, and now I'm basically just chatting until my forum access goes, lol.

[Aluja89]

As of 6.4, for the first time. I started skipping cutscenes.