On Themis [6.4 SPOILER]

[Lurina]

While there's layers to it, I don't generally think the reason I like the Elpis and the Unsundered World overlaps with why I like Emet at all. If anything, it correlates more with why I liked the rest of Shadowbringers.

I prefer the Unsundered World and the First (at least before we solved all their problems) over the Source because they're very unique, tonally distinct settings where mankind is in a fundamentally different position to the real world in a way that provokes interesting questions about society and human nature. While the First had similar vibes to something like Children of Men where it's all about seeing the different ways people respond to having no future, Elpis provoked a lot of similar feelings to when I'm reading good sci-fi. I was filled with curiosity about what this world would be like because, with the fundamentals so different, I genuinely couldn't guess. Beyond just Amaurot, how have other societies developed different value systems in the context of having these powers? What are families like in a world where humans are still recognizably human (rather than falling into elf tropes) but live for thousands and thousands of years? How did this strange status quo come about - was it always so utopian and aggressively community-oriented, or was this something they arrived at after a disaster? How the hell does their economy even work? I could go on.

In contrast, the Source is so dull to me. It's a Forgotten Realms-ass fantasy kitchen sink with themes and motifs you can find anywhere, spread out without any underlying direction. I like some of the characters, but I don't give a damn about any of these factions and places - even the interesting ones like Gridania have had all their edges filed off since 1.0. When I hear people talk about how they hope the next several expansions get away from all this cross-dimensional stuff to focus on the Source, it makes me feel like I'm going insane. I don't wanna be here! It's so boring! Ahhhhh!!!!!!!!

edit: Whoops, sorry for sniping your high-effort post, Teraq.

[Teraq]

edit: Whoops, sorry for sniping your high-effort post, Teraq.

Haha don't worry. Old message boards and its pages happen. (Imagine seeing "Teraq is typing…" for one hour straight.)

I fully agree with your post. I've always found the setting of the Source… middling out-of-the-mill fantasy at best. It isn't helped by the fact that the races and tribes' lore feels like it isn't explored much, so a lot of the time the various people of the Source feel like they're just… regular people in a fantasy setting with schizophrenic tech, but some of them happen to have animal ears, fur or scales or an unusual skin tone. I'm thankful that we got two depictions of traditional Seeker of the Sun tribes at all, and the various tribes were a highlight of the Azim Steppes (not enough of them though… *clenches fist*), but otherwise… where are the Duskwight caves? The volcano dwelling Hellsguards? Male Viera as the unseen protectors of the jungle? Hrothgar's… everything? (hard to depict their society when you don't even have a model for women, I guess…)

And yeah, the Ancients fascinate me because they're human in every way, but with fundamental differences that change a lot. For this reason, I loved the tidbit in Pandaemonium tier 2 where Themis explains that typically people don't feel so intensely about their parents; it stands to reason that humans that live nearly forever compared to us, physiologically cannot die of hunger as opposed to animals (as explained by Euanthe) and possess magic that makes their society post-scarcity by default would have different social dynamics from ours. Once they grew into adults, they most likely didn't have to be caretakers for their parents as they grew into old age. They didn't have to depend on them for money, food or shelter. This would fundamentally change a lot of the interpersonal dynamic.

I am of the same opinion regarding how their society became so collective-oriented, stressing the use of their magic to benefit the community and The Planet™ rather than fostering individuality and material possessions. My headcanon on that is that their history was full of dark and darker things, because they are very well aware that everyone has dark impulses within themselves – it's literally the first thing you are told when arriving in Amaurot in 5.0. Combined with their myriad laws, regulated processes and comically tedious administrative paperwork (paging Fourth Seat Pashtarot to investigate Elpis… paging Fourth Seat…), thinking notably of the societal taboo around going Greek God Mode as "unsightly", or their insistence on doing certain things the mundane way rather than using their magic nilly-willy, it's very easy to imagine disasters HAVE happened and they are doing their best to prevent that from happening again. Honestly, I'm sure that even in the era we see them, their day-to-day lives could get… interesting.

As for their economy, I think the only thing we know for sure is that fish description that says Ancients wouldn't care about gold as a material itself, which doesn't mean they didn't have a currency that isn't that metal in particular… perhaps a currency marked with a particular aetherial signature that makes it incredibly hard to replicate? Or perhaps a trade economy of naturally grown goods. I wish we knew more.