On Themis [6.4 SPOILER]

[Denishia]

*shrug* Yoshida's comments about the Ancients rang true enough to me.

As a location and collection of NPCs it ranked at its best as equal to Eulmore under Vauntry, with the same skin-crawling revulsion that I Did Not Like This Place. Venat as the most likeable introduced in 6.0 sat at the same fondness as pre-development Chais. Hermes was the most intriguingly written of the lot, and then I later liked Erichtonios because of the story of familial drama and another character that like Hermes shattered the illusion that Hythlodeaus touted. (my favorite minor NPC is Martyn from the Blue Mage quests; I like the pathetic) None of the other Unsundered NPCS really intrigue me except for the thought exercises of imagining current day people who have inherited pieces of their Souls and what they might be like (or the Twelve. But not really. It's a neat tidbit but not the most interesting or appealing reason to care about the Twelve). But story-wise and in more superficial design choices like the Art Deco skyscrapers, one note bland/ugly character/costume design, the only theme song that makes me mute XIV ...maybe not loving the Ancients is a minority but I know I'm not the only one.

I'm used to this position though, since I'm also one of those: Lyse and Papalymo were the Scions that I liked best and didn't care about any besides Alphinaud (and technically Estinien) until ShB gave them focus and development and even now they're not my favorite of XIV's cast. I don't want any to die or leave the cast, unlike the vocal Scion haters, because I want them to stick around and continue to grow and get new story. Excited for more Krile, for instance.

To continue this parallels thread: Elidibus sits at about the same spot as Ran'jit. Not a top-tier opponent but not at the bottom. Elidibus had more upsetting villainy moments but a slightly stronger pity after his defeat, and his fights were more interesting but I'm more curious about Ran'jit's unanswered backstory and seeing him return in a quest-line. Design-wise is...hm, equal. Maybe Ran'jit more because of the mystery. Themis's VA edges out on that comparison.

[Kozh]

*shrug* Yoshida's comments about the Ancients rang true enough to me. As a location and collection of NPCs it ranked at its best as equal to Eulmore under Vauntry, with the same skin-crawling revulsion that I Did Not Like This Place.

Honestly I'm still baffled as to why people treat the Ancient world as "peaceful town that hides sinister things/death cult/etc" horror movie trope, or that Pandaemonium and Elpis are a "gotcha!" against the Ancients. Sure they look like humans, but their biology and culture are very different they might as well considered as aliens. So why are we using our moral standard to judge them? What's normal to us may not normal for them, and vice versa. Saying that they're "scary" and "wrong".... no offense but I can't help but to see it as an intolerant act.

(also, even using our moral standard, what the Ancients did are far, far better than what humans did. Go ask the kidnapped women in sastasha which world is worse)

You know, I don't remember people condemning all those au ra tribes on Steppe, even though they have customs and cultures that's borderline criminal from our perspective. It's interesting that a lot of people doesn't extend the same understanding and tolerance to the Ancients. Why is that I wonder? Is it because the narrative tried to sell the Ancients way of living as a bad thing? Or was it born from jealousy of seeing how much better the Ancients world is compared to the sundered (and real life)?

Something that has occurred to me about the 8UC timeline, although probably not an intentional thing, is that the Ironworks gambled with the exact right piece, as G'raha and the Crystal Tower actually wouldn't really help in the task of dragging them towards the Eighth Astral Era. They just don't really provide anything useful for the task at hand, which I read as basically a Mad Max or Fallout situation; facing both mass death and crop failings causing a lawless wasteland.

After having the short story quoted here, I don't get why you fail to understand that the Ironworks didn't gamble anything for their future. They didn't wake up G'raha and invent time travel to save their present and future, they did it so to create an alternate reality where the 8th calamity is prevented even though it may result in them being erased. The moment Cid and others decided on this plan, we could argue that they have given up on their timeline. With how advance Omega and Allag technologies were, I doubt they couldn't build their own labyrinthos if they wanted to. Yet they focused (and imo, wasted) their resources on the time travel plan.

And funny enough, the game presents this as a selfless heroic thing. Never did once it give us the chance to doubt or disagree with it.

But when it comes to the Elpis trip that part either is resolved and not a problem (to the players) or is an acceptable risk (to the characters), so it doesn't matter for the comparison often raised; moralizing about the 8UC decision doesn't help us when talking about the WoL's Elpis trip and the notion of them staying to save the Ancient world, so my brain just went 'what happens if we don't get caught up in that part', because we always do. And my conclusion is that the 8UC timeline is absolutely fine without G'raha (depending on what the Tower left behind I could even debatably see it being better), but the Source is screwed without the Warrior of Light returning.

Just in case it's lost on you, we've been talking about time travel in Pandaemonium, not in Elpis (6.0). And as you might notice, Pandaemonium happens after we save the universe by beating meteion.