On Themis [6.4 SPOILER]

[Denishia]

I agree that Themis/Elidibus felt very awkwardly shoehorned into the present timeline Anabeisos - he worked in the first two tiers as the outside straight man and supportive friend for Erichtonios when the meaty core of this raid's story was the toxic familial history and relationships of the Lahabreas. It's why having the original plot MacGuffin crystal be a memory crystal of both Erichtonios and Lahabrea worked (and an interesting counterbalance to the Heart of Sabik as memory for Athena and Lahabrea). But the 6.3 fanservice fight and placing our conclusion scenes with Elibidus in the current day Source's Aetherial Sea instead of in the past or one the First as to keep the raid in just two locations required some painfully clunky 'Athena did it' handwaves and a memory Elidibus with a characterization that feels muddled.

[SannaR]

I agree that Themis/Elidibus felt very awkwardly shoehorned into the present timeline Anabeisos - he worked in the first two tiers as the outside straight man and supportive friend for Erichtonios when the meaty core of this raid's story was the toxic familial history and relationships of the Lahabreas. It's why having the original plot MacGuffin crystal be a memory crystal of both Erichtonios and Lahabrea worked (and an interesting counterbalance to the Heart of Sabik as memory for Athena and Lahabrea). But the 6.3 fanservice fight and placing our conclusion scenes with Elibidus in the current day Source's Aetherial Sea instead of in the past or one the First as to keep the raid in just two locations required some painfully clunky 'Athena did it' handwaves and a memory Elidibus with a characterization that feels muddled.

Isn't that how Themis is? Muddled? Athena gives him muddled memories of anything outside the scope of Pandeamonium. During 5.3 his memories are muddled due to choosing to forget and being a primal that was summoned with as Y'shtola puts it a "cacophony of voices" muddied it further. Even when he's sending us back to Elpis his memories are still muddled. We don't even get an idea of who he is or what he's like until then really as for most of the game he's just there being bland as can be. It's not until we learn that he's a young man who looks up to his older colleagues with admiration with more aimed at Azem. A person who isn't jaded or cynical yet and doesn't seem to get that way until we kill Emet-Selch. Even then I'm not sure if he becomes that way because he's a primal that strives for the salvation of the star and how dare Emet-Selch go and go against the plan. Or if there is some of the old him creeping out. Maybe a mixture of both.

[Denishia]

Isn't that how Themis is? Muddled? Athena gives him muddled memories of anything outside the scope of Pandeamonium. During 5.3 his memories are muddled due to choosing to forget and being a primal that was summoned with as Y'shtola puts it a "cacophony of voices" muddied it further. Even when he's sending us back to Elpis his memories are still muddled. We don't even get an idea of who he is or what he's like until then really as for most of the game he's just there being bland as can be. It's not until we learn that he's a young man who looks up to his older colleagues with admiration with more aimed at Azem. A person who isn't jaded or cynical yet and doesn't seem to get that way until we kill Emet-Selch. Even then I'm not sure if he becomes that way because he's a primal that strives for the salvation of the star and how dare Emet-Selch go and go against the plan. Or if there is some of the old him creeping out. Maybe a mixture of both.

Anabaseios Elidibus is muddled like Primal 6.3 Elidibus but not exactly the same as Elidi-Primal. It's supposed to be Athena messing with him (and unfortunately there wasn't any space for in the limited confines of the raid but that Lahabrea, Erichtonios, and Elidibus were memories pasted over unconnected souls and nothing was done with the soul dissonance that should have caused strikes me as weird- just have them be pure memory constructs)- which is why it was weird that the 'closure for his character' ending scene is supposed to be the leftovers of what Athena snatched up from who knows where when it had been previously established that his aether was attached to the First's Crystal Tower and in use to power that teleport portal to Elpis. Unless what Athena pulled was some lingering remnant of Themis from Zodiark? Maybe when Elidibus the Primal separated from Zodiark the Primal some of Themis remained behind and that would have been released into the Source without crossing back and ferrying over into the Shard Lifestream by either Hydaelyn or Athena. The memory crystal for Elidibus that Lahabrea and Emet made but was never used wouldn't have solved the problem but was a plot coupon that the raid could have used to justify having Themis in his Ancient form for the Anabaseios portion.