Why is all new content such a cakewalk?

[R041]

Okay, I don't buy into the notion of ranking games universally. Different things in different games just fit preferences more or less.

For the dungeons:
Pre-Draenor, you wouldn't have had that triplet of dungeon difficulties. You had normals and heroic dungeons. I, personally (!), liked that better.
The introduction of mythic dungeons was meant to reflect higher raid difficulty in content for smaller groups. Mythic + deepens that system (it is a progression system where the dungeons get increasingly more difficult). So yes, more effort went into that content since Draenor.
And WoW's always put emphasis on their raids, that is nothing new. The focus of the game is much more on the endgame, than it is here.

WoW had become increasingly difficult to play with alts (this would take a lot of time to explain) and you need to do that in contrast to ff14 to experience different classes.

The shifts I have heard about, are small things, really. Toys you can use for RP (like skybox changes, or that just stay a bit), the one group that stuck with WoW forever and was never catered to. Or the halfed cost to upgrade gear for alts, that I've heard about, more satisfying world exploration. More and divers overworld-content. If they'd been sure that a focus on pure progression on main characters were the werewithal, they would have stuck with that, imo.

Yeah I play both, and I want to try and stay unbiased here. I just want to make sure we're not trying to make weird comparisons and assumptions over current WoW vs current XIV. Because a lot of people that have only played XIV don't understand that WoW is a ramp to difficulty, and XIV is a curb.

Personally I have a much easier time of playing varied difficulty content in WoW, where XIV kinda forces me to set significant time aside for anything harder than Normal.

In XIV there's a very clear line of casual vs hardcore, and they're very far apart from each other. In WoW, it's not such a clear distinction, because casual can vary a lot up to the edge of hardcore even if hardcore does exist.

I would say for hardcore players, both games put just as much emphasis into raiding if we're talking about time and effort required blind. (Which is why I do neither now lol)

The alt discussion - WoW has become very alt friendly with MSQ and progression unlocks being account wide, and catch-up gear for alts if you've progressed already. So I don't think that's really a point we can make anymore.

But ultimately I do agree, they're just different.

[ValCat]

I would say for hardcore players, both games put just as much emphasis into raiding if we're talking about time and effort required blind. (Which is why I do neither now lol)

The alt discussion - WoW has become very alt friendly with MSQ and progression unlocks being account wide, and catch-up gear for alts if you've progressed already. So I don't think that's really a point we can make anymore.

But ultimately I do agree, they're just different.

My perspective is a different one, since I'd only been raiding in Wrath and I won't touch anything like that in ff14. It is just too hectic for me, personally.
So, the content I am after is the most accessible. I love to level, to try different classes/jobs and I am a crafter in all games that offer that. I am going to give dragonflight a try. I usually play several games anyhow, with always the one more, that fits the current mood.
What I meant with effort is not what the players have to invest, but what the designers focus on most. And with WoW, raids (and then mythic dungeons) always seemed front and center, the aim of the expansion. But I agree: from what I have read, it might be easier to progress from normal to more difficult content there, because the increase in difficulty is more gradual. But I also think, the two games and their battle style is just too different to compare.
FF14s higher difficulties would kill me. It is just too fast, too choreographed for me. Fun to watch other people do it, but it is just not for me. For me, that just feels like work and I want to have fun.

I have been playing most larger MMOs (but the newest ones), and I cannot think of one of them that didn't at least have aspects I liked and others I wasn't that fond of.

[Anarnee]

I feel the same, I remember timing out on dungeons in ARR. I suppose it could just be the general player base being a bit better, or at least the folks that do the content in these first few days. I can understand dungeons being made easier, but it would be nice for the raids to be a bit more thought provoking. I only had a wipe on P12.

I do like the alliance raids BUT was very disappointed with Euphrosyne. I thought Aglaia was perfect though. I hope the last one with be more fun.

[MrSigy]

What a thread, where to start

FFxiv is getting easier and easier, ARR dungeons hit harder then the newest dungeons

Decidedly false. HW dungeons (and open world mobs) hit much harder than ARR dungeons/mobs at release. Not so much anymore.

Actually he first quote was factually correct. ARR dungeons/raids/trials hit harder before/after the statsquish.
Healers when arr came out were not expected to dps cleric stance was a thing.
In HW healers were starting to expect to do damage so the damage was proportionally upscaled together with the damage requirement to the point where 95% of the player could not keep up.

My group wiped 3 times on the end boss in the new dungeon this morning. *shrug*

I don't know entirely know what to say to this one.
The first and second boss don't exist they are overgrown dungeon mobs and the 3th one you just dodge tentacles.
If you are struggling on this dungeon then you might have to consider the fact that this game is not for the visual impaired.

I will say though, somewhat contrary to the point above. The mechanics in many respects have gotten harder, outside of a few outliers, e.g., Ivalice vomit, but on the other hand how hard they hit, and the punishment for failing just doesn't quite feel there, and to an extent where they just cancel out, e.g., feeling like you can just ignore some mechanics outright..

Ivalice when it came out was not hard, thundergod has some mechanics where a group would fail and the entire raid would die as a consequence.
They dumbed it down after a couple of weeks after people complaining much like how they dumbed down the first 24man this expansion and now everything is boring with no wipes.

don't expect anything more from stuff below EX

Consider Above the EX.
The new extreme has no damage no healing and no mitigation requirement.
Tanks take no damage, there is 1 do or die mechanic in the entire trial.

[DPZ2]

Actually he first quote was factually correct. ARR dungeons/raids/trials hit harder before/after the statsquish.

What is that sentence supposed to mean? There was no stat squish during Heavensward. [edit: my original quote was about HW "at release", not 8 years later]

HW mobs hit harder at level than ARR mobs at level because the development team deliberately made them harder. It was designed to be more dangerous.

I enjoyed the comment thread about this on reddit, especially this comparison: "Just for comparisons sake: The Lv50 Water Sprites in East Shroud have 2778 HP. The Lv50 Ice Sprites in CWH have 8028 HP." [source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ficulty_spike/ ]

[Akonyl]

I like to think that I was a good player back in HW and the fights were just factually harder, but at the same time sometimes my static will go back to do old fights at min ilvl and damage aside, the mechs a lot of the time just aren't that bad, when once upon a time I had to prog them for quite a while.

There used to be a time when a11s limit cut was seen as an insane mechanic, where nowadays people just go "oh, another limit cut?". There used to be a time when gavel in a8s was seen as some hugely complex mechanic when if you look at it nowadays, it's really not that bad as far as "role puzzle" mechanics go. I think people just don't really realize just how much raiding knowledge they've internalized over the years when it comes to talking about how much harder some fights were back in the Good Old Days.

I will say that DPS checks were tuned harder back in gordias though, that's not a meme.

What is that sentence supposed to mean? There was no stat squish during Heavensward. [edit: my original quote was about HW "at release", not 8 years later]

HW mobs hit harder at level than ARR mobs at level because the development team deliberately made them harder. It was designed to be more dangerous.

I enjoyed the comment thread about this on reddit, especially this comparison: "Just for comparisons sake: The Lv50 Water Sprites in East Shroud have 2778 HP. The Lv50 Ice Sprites in CWH have 8028 HP." [source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ficulty_spike/ ]

ARR level 50 mobs on the overworld were designed for people who were fresh 50, in ilvl 50ish gear. By the end of ARR, there were people walking around in ilvl 120 gear, and mobs in HW would be tuned to pretty quickly expect higher ilvls out of players. Expansions always have a jump in enemy HP / damage across expansions because even if they're similar level, the expected ilvl of the player skyrockets in that between-expac period. Early HW mobs might be slightly tankier than say, early SB/SHB mobs, but I don't think that points to a design philosophy to make the game harder so much as it points to the devs being a little clumsier back then.

I can't really say that HW mobs *weren't* any tankier at-level than ARR when you had expected gear levels, but I think it's missing the mark to talk about mobs that exist in the transitional levels of expansion gear, because that doesn't mean they're supposed to be harder play-wise, it just means they thought you'd have a higher ilvl.

[Ranaku]

snip

The game back then was harder, MP was more scarce. Melees had to deal with TP as a resource and couldn't use sprint. Tanks actually had to sweat a bit when tanking, it wasn't just a hit this mob once and you will have the aggro for life.

Also bosses hit hard, Nidhoggs Akh Morn literally blasted parties when they didn't stack. Nowadays you can have 4 people stack and they might still easily survive depending on the healer, back then that was just instant death.

Also does anyone remember the MSQ being a bit harder? You know before us having just the Echo and blasting through everything? I remember some solo instanced fights in ARR were almost impossible with certain jobs, i remember leveling an healer extra for that so i could heal the NPCs cause the fight would fail if they died. Same with the monk quest in stormblood, it was a nightmare. Today we have just a always on auto regen.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I don't know entirely know what to say to this one.
The first and second boss don't exist they are overgrown dungeon mobs and the 3th one you just dodge tentacles.
If you are struggling on this dungeon then you might have to consider the fact that this game is not for the visual impaired.

Was it truly necessary to end this with an insult because people learning wiped? It's not just "dodging tentacles" - one portion there is a really specific spot you can stand. I watched this from outside the arena while we waited for the DRK to die, and there is a really specific sliver at times on a weird-shaped arena where if you can't tell, you won't get to since its on one side or the other. It's not a basic square where the safe spots are always accessible nor are their multiples.

I'm sure at some point playing this game you fell flat on your face as well.

Anyway, did all the normal mode trials today. Entire group wipe on one of them too. Lots of first timers and it's been out two days. So what?

[Boblawblah]

I'm proudly terrible. I did the dungeon with a trust and had no idea wtf I was doing on that last boss the first time. I was just enjoying the awesome music and running around.

[Coatl]

Uh oh! You said the wrong thing! Uh…Bobby Kotick! Breast milk in the fridge! Bill Cosby! Shadowlands! Borrowed power! Haha, you’ve been defeated, now give up and bow to the best MMO of all time, which of course is the game that lets you play other games.

I just spat my drink out LMAO.