Why is all new content such a cakewalk?

[PangTong]

I feel this way too, especially in Endwalker. Normal modes have never been "hard" but I feel like they used to put up enough resistance to make clearing them satisfying. Now they are so easy that it feels like my input doesn't even matter, the group will clear whether I play well, average, badly, or just do nothing. That is very boring, and so I now tend to actively avoid doing normal content unless I really want something from it. It's even more true of lower level content, with ARR and Heavensward content now being so undertuned due to battle system changes over the years that failure is almost impossible.

Dungeons now seem completely standardized of 2 packs - wall - 2 packs - boss - repeat. There are no longer any sections where you can try to do a really big pull, and in fact you're often limited to single pulls. Bosses can't kill unless you fall off an edge, get doom, or fail multiple mechanics simultaneously (and if you're a tank that's not enough either).

Alliance Raids have suffered the most, I think. EW alliance raid bosses die before you see all their mechanics patterns even on-content. Like 30% of the time is just nothing happening while the boss casts. By the time the boss has gotten through the "tutorial" versions of its mechanics and is starting the harder versions, it's almost dead. Nald'thal is even killable before he does the scales mechanic, the signature set piece of the entire fight. Even if you don't care about challenge at all, you have to at least acknowledge that it's not great as a spectacle experience to skip everything the boss does and kill it before you even get through 1 loop of the music. Its such a far cry from legendary bosses like Ozma, Hashmal and TG Cid.

The 6.4 normal raid and trial at least feels a -little- stiffer than usual, I think owing to what seems to be larger boss HP pools. However that may just be because it's early in the patch and no one has any new gear yet.

[ValCat]

I think people sometimes tend to forget how well trained they might be to see markers and react fast to them. On top of this, people have different capabilities, different reaction times. I have hardly seen many mechanics, since I avoid everything beyond normal story in current content, but still, I now recognise a good number that are recurring that I would not have known about before. People in this game will be on a rather wide spectrum of this knowledge, depending on what they have unlocked and when. The story at least has to accomodate all of these people.

For some of you, the sheer number of mechanics you will have mastered in the years you've tackled the more challenging content is immense. To come up with something completely unique has to get harder and harder for content designers, just because of the amount of things you have seen. On top of this, the kits to handle said mechanics get stronger (not wider or more variant, as I understand it), you just have more and more potent tools than in synched stuff. That power creep is there in the potencies and I'd expect in the gear for everything endgamey too.

That talk about the 'midcore' feels a little off for me, when it tries to shift the normal, main story relevant modes to be challenging for people who are clearly beyond it. If the game demands said content just to advance the story, it has to be manageable for people with a vast array of experience. You can be in the endgame without having unlocked any of the older raids and most of the alliance raids. And then, some of the mechanics some of you will easily recognise and master, will be new and more challenging because of the lack of experience/ability.

The story content can only consider what it, in itself, teaches, imo. And this is getting better, because markers get more generalised and dungeons pick up toned down versions of things others might have first encountered in raids.

For me, normal content isn't that much of a breeze, especially the trials. It is not that I do not understand what I am supposed to do (I usually watch guides beforehand), but that i have a hard time seeing and reacting to some of the tells fast enough, not because of the mechanic, but because of the pacing they have. I get one right and fail the next because I've missed one crucial tell. I do get better, when I've played those things a few times, but that brilliance some of you seeminigly have on first tries eludes me.

Yes, you can answer now, that people have to improve their gameplay. But to what degree just to see the story and nothing more than that? I personally think, you might be asking more for changes to things beyond normal story content, if you seek the challenge you got used to in extremes and savages or beyond that.

[Ranaku]

snip

Tbh i find it fair that the story content is kinda slow paced and easy, that is totally alright cause everyone no matter what skill level should be able to enjoy the games story without worrying to first play their job to perfection.

But there is a huge void of lacking content that is between the both extremes which is brainded msq content and raiding. As i said before raiding is something you usually spend a day with and it is timed content, you will get your rewards and that is it. You do the extreme and get the mount and weapons and beyond that you won't do it. That most people achieve like after a week or two? But what is with the rest of the 4months? You could say there is savage then, yes. Which you learn and then spend one day on reclears. Which leaves 6 days of the week open.

SE should maybe try to provide engaging content that will last, raiding is great and a good challenge for people but it slowly dies down and leaves a lot of time open. I honestly can't see how the argument of "Yes but once every 5 months you will be able to actually use all your healing actions for maybe a week or two" is a good argument. Healers overall are i think most hit by SE philosophy of having only hyper casual content or content in which you have maybe sometimes to heal when a raidwide comes in or a tankbuster goes off.

If we need an example, i kinda wish SE would adapt the mythic difficulty from WoW. Or in general the difficulty of dungeons from WoW. Ofc that system isn't perfect but it would be really nice if we had some sort of engaging content in the game that people could do daily which isn't just braindead roulettes. There is a reason why many raiders only sub for the raids and then leave again after they cleared and it is a huge loss for SE overall tbh. cause they seem to not be able to keep the midcore playerbase engaged.

[ValCat]

If we need an example, i kinda wish SE would adapt the mythic difficulty from WoW. Or in general the difficulty of dungeons from WoW. Ofc that system isn't perfect but it would be really nice if we had some sort of engaging content in the game that people could do daily which isn't just braindead roulettes. There is a reason why many raiders only sub for the raids and then leave again after they cleared and it is a huge loss for SE overall tbh. cause they seem to not be able to keep the midcore playerbase engaged.

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

I can understand your need and wish for recurring content you find challenging. I applaud, if people with different tastes get their wish. But i think SE still will need to find something beyond msq content to do that. Because, if people (not necessarily you, you seem more nuanced) get their wish there, it might simply render the game unplayable for people below a certain skill level and for all I can see, SE doesn't want that.

Maybe they will build up on the criterion dungeon idea, make that more flexible, so it cannot be predicted as much and then have it as a roulette. I, personally, think, that is one of the better ways, since experienced players will always learn encounters fast and if they know them, they will be trivial to them. I don't think there will be any good ways to aleviate this other than making instances unpredictable. For me, these criterion dungeons seem like a test right now. I can be wrong, though.
Another thing along those lines is the duty-support I percieve as a fall back or safety net. Maybe this will someday cover all of the msq and then, you can always experience the story and the other things can be a bit more flexible.

I am not adverse to job-changes (or role changes). I just think it will always be hard to satisfy demanding players and not overwhelm struggling ones with the same content.

[Shinkuno]

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

I can understand your need and wish for recurring content you find challenging. I applaud, if people with different tastes get their wish. But i think SE still will need to find something beyond msq content to do that. Because, if people (not necessarily you, you seem more nuanced) get their wish there, it might simply render the game unplayable for people below a certain skill level and for all I can see, SE doesn't want that.

Maybe they will build up on the criterion dungeon idea, make that more flexible, so it cannot be predicted as much and then have it as a roulette. I, personally, think, that is one of the better ways, since experienced players will always learn encounters fast and if they know them, they will be trivial to them. I don't think there will be any good ways to aleviate this other than making instances unpredictable. For me, these criterion dungeons seem like a test right now. I can be wrong, though.
Another thing along those lines is the duty-support I percieve as a fall back or safety net. Maybe this will someday cover all of the msq and then, you can always experience the story and the other things can be a bit more flexible.

I am not adverse to job-changes (or role changes). I just think it will always be hard to satisfy demanding players and not overwhelm struggling ones with the same content.

WHat shift? If anything, Dragonflight focuses even harder on M+ and Raids for gearing. Theres also alot less casual cosmetic grinds compared to Shadowlands. Overall Dragonflight feels more like a FF14 Expansion but with more content and better combat.

[ValCat]

I shouldn't have brought it up, since it might seriously derail the topic. My bad, sorry. Not talking about huge shifts here (that's why I have said 'a bit') and I don't play, just go by my friends' experiences (all a bit more like me). But with that game, even little things for groups like RPers are a surprise for me. These things have just never happened before. Very, very low expectations here.

[R041]

I think WoW's exclusive concentration on mythic dungeons and raids has lost them a lot of players. You can see it in the changes they are implementing now, they are trying to shift it back again a bit. Why would they do that, if the numbers would'nt suggest it to them? I think what had worked better in WoW were the old hard modes (the ones before the mythic system was introduced not that step in between). But you'd outgear those too.

You need to explain what you're talking about here - Because I'm not quite sure that's true.

How are they shifting it back, and what's the difference between old hard modes, old Mythic, and new Mythic? How are they focusing on raids?

The dungeon scaling with Normal, Heroic, and Mythic is a varied system of all degrees. Hard modes are just steps without a proper ramp. Like how we have Normal and Savage, there's no ramp. It's a single large step up into pain. WoW has ramps players use.

A lot of XIV players don't understand how WoW dungeons work, so using blanket statements gives them a bad impression - When it's not bad, it's just different.

[ValCat]

(...)
How are they shifting it back, and what's the difference between old hard modes, old Mythic, and new Mythic? How are they focusing on raids?

Okay, I don't buy into the notion of ranking games universally. Different things in different games just fit preferences more or less.

For the dungeons:
Pre-Draenor, you wouldn't have had that triplet of dungeon difficulties. You had normals and heroic dungeons. I, personally (!), liked that better.
The introduction of mythic dungeons was meant to reflect higher raid difficulty in content for smaller groups. Mythic + deepens that system (it is a progression system where the dungeons get increasingly more difficult). So yes, more effort went into that content since Draenor.
And WoW's always put emphasis on their raids, that is nothing new. The focus of the game is much more on the endgame, than it is here.

WoW had become increasingly difficult to play with alts (this would take a lot of time to explain) and you need to do that in contrast to ff14 to experience different classes.

The shifts I have heard about, are small things, really. Toys you can use for RP (like skybox changes, or that just stay a bit), the one group that stuck with WoW forever and was never catered to. Or the halfed cost to upgrade gear for alts, that I've heard about, more satisfying world exploration. More and divers overworld-content. If they'd been sure that a focus on pure progression on main characters were the werewithal, they would have stuck with that, imo.

[caffe_macchiato]

SE should maybe try to provide engaging content that will last, raiding is great and a good challenge for people but it slowly dies down and leaves a lot of time open. I honestly can't see how the argument of "Yes but once every 5 months you will be able to actually use all your healing actions for maybe a week or two" is a good argument.

Many people play FFXIV precisely because they can do their mandatory reclears for an hour each week and then go back to playing other games. Raiding in FFXIV is largely a chore because it’s a game of Simon Says and rote memorization. It’s a “dance”, as people call it. Except dancing isn’t a video game. It’s just a chore that you have to do every Tuesday because you have to, but thankfully it’s over quickly and you can play games that are actually fun.

If we need an example, i kinda wish SE would adapt the mythic difficulty from WoW.

Uh oh! You said the wrong thing! Uh…Bobby Kotick! Breast milk in the fridge! Bill Cosby! Shadowlands! Borrowed power! Haha, you’ve been defeated, now give up and bow to the best MMO of all time, which of course is the game that lets you play other games.

[Coatl]

Uh oh! You said the wrong thing! Uh…Bobby Kotick! Breast milk in the fridge! Bill Cosby! Shadowlands! Borrowed power! Haha, you’ve been defeated, now give up and bow to the best MMO of all time, which of course is the game that lets you play other games.

I just spat my drink out LMAO.