Why telling people to unsub is a horrible defense of the game.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

No battlegrounds?!?! I wonder how they ever survive with so few battlegr- Oh... Wait a second... We're actually losing one of our battlegrounds, with no replacement or changes forthcoming.

WoW PvP is far from being perfect, but they have *too* much balancing to do, not only with keeping classes balanced, but also gearing/trinkets. I still find it fun however, unlike XIV. XIV PvP has a lot of potential, it's just consistently thrown in the trash with the communities feedback as they continously make nonsensical changes that don't address any of our problems, and they have no excuses for it because unlike wow they only have at most 8 abilities to balance per job, and they don't need to worry about gear imbalance.

Besides, WoW has more then just Battlegrounds. Open world pvp, Arena, Dueling, raiding major cities, battlegrounds, ect. Quick and dirty Arena matches in XIV? I'd love that, even with the crappy job balancing. I'd love for them to steal game modes, and maps from other MMO's. Gives us something to do besides bang our heads against the wall when we see patchnotes.

WoW PvP wouldn't be dead if they just sync'd everyone to a more fair level. However, doing that would kill the gear grind and take away the fantasy of geared players owning entire battlegrounds by themselves due to gear and unbalanced classes.


Open World PvP is dead in WoW. PvP servers are just gankfests/ganging up on players minding their business. Not to mention with Dragonflight, it's very easy to just... avoid PvP, which players do on PvP servers unless they have an unfair advantage or numbers on their side. That's why almost all PvP servers are either massively in favor of one faction over the other - population-wise.

Dueling isn't a big thing anymore due to classes being unbalanced. No one wants to duel, say... a Ret Paladin, as they will destroy nearly every class in 1 vs 1.

No one raids major cities anymore. I haven't seen a Major city raided since Classic to Cataclysm. With everyone in Valdrakken, why would anyone attack Orgrimmar or Stormwind? Not to mention that the gear/rep/M+ grind takes up a LOT of time, so players aren't just gonna group up anymore and raid a Major City when they get nothing out of it. Not to mention that being able to Fly kills the spirit of City Raids too.

They haven't gotten a new Battleground in YEARS. Let that sink in. Not to mention that Battlegrounds are extremely unbalanced and after the first week, they're just a place for overgeared players to farm honor off less geared players.

Arena? The population doing arena has dropped drastically as players would rather farm World Quests, Raid, or do the toxic M+ gameplay. Very few seriously play Arena anymore, most are just buying carries which Blizzard allows in Trade Chat. M+ and Raids can have carries sold in Trade chat too, as this promotes players buying WoW Tokens to afford it. That's why Blizzard no longer bans carries and let's them be openly advertised.

No, I wouldn't want any of that in FF14.

[Shinkuno]

WoW PvP wouldn't be dead if they just sync'd everyone to a more fair level. However, doing that would kill the gear grind and take away the fantasy of geared players owning entire battlegrounds by themselves due to gear and unbalanced classes.


Open World PvP is dead in WoW. PvP servers are just gankfests/ganging up on players minding their business. Not to mention with Dragonflight, it's very easy to just... avoid PvP, which players do on PvP servers unless they have an unfair advantage or numbers on their side. That's why almost all PvP servers are either massively in favor of one faction over the other - population-wise.

Dueling isn't a big thing anymore due to classes being unbalanced. No one wants to duel, say... a Ret Paladin, as they will destroy nearly every class in 1 vs 1.

No one raids major cities anymore. I haven't seen a Major city raided since Classic to Cataclysm. With everyone in Valdrakken, why would anyone attack Orgrimmar or Stormwind? Not to mention that the gear/rep/M+ grind takes up a LOT of time, so players aren't just gonna group up anymore and raid a Major City when they get nothing out of it. Not to mention that being able to Fly kills the spirit of City Raids too.

They haven't gotten a new Battleground in YEARS. Let that sink in. Not to mention that Battlegrounds are extremely unbalanced and after the first week, they're just a place for overgeared players to farm honor off less geared players.

Arena? The population doing arena has dropped drastically as players would rather farm World Quests, Raid, or do the toxic M+ gameplay. Very few seriously play Arena anymore, most are just buying carries which Blizzard allows in Trade Chat. M+ and Raids can have carries sold in Trade chat too, as this promotes players buying WoW Tokens to afford it. That's why Blizzard no longer bans carries and let's them be openly advertised.

No, I wouldn't want any of that in FF14.

How to spot someone that didnt play WoW in years? He still talks about PvP Servers. They dont exist anymore outside classic. Dont know why you guys always come to the defense of the game with "but WoW bad" and then drop incorrect stuff that makes you look like a fool?

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

How to spot someone that didnt play WoW in years? He still talks about PvP Servers. They dont exist anymore outside classic. Dont know why you guys always come to the defense of the game with "but WoW bad" and then drop incorrect stuff that makes you look like a fool?

I know you haven't played WoW in years.

I was just on yesterday, as my sub time hasn't ran out yet.

PvP still is a thing, it's called War Mode and it's just as bad as the PvP servers of old. The only benefit it has, is players turning it on for 10% bonus exp, as no one keeps it on at max level unless they want to be ganked.

Then there's Blizzards new Zone - those Caverns. Already dead. Why? Enemy density is too high, enemies and their elite stacks have numerous mechanics, way too much HP/Damage, it's a rare chase, and getting rep for the new faction is a massive grind as they massively reduced the rep players get for activities. Blizzard is trying to force the zone as a group zone, but most players are just leaving the zone as it isn't fun and is extremely annoying. Especially the left side (that is the most mob dense) that constantly warns that they'll be dismounted.

Lose the insults. Uncalled for. Especially when you don't know anything upon the matter.

[Amenara]

I know you haven't played WoW in years.

I was just on yesterday, as my sub time hasn't ran out yet.

PvP still is a thing, it's called War Mode and it's just as bad as the PvP servers of old. The only benefit it has, is players turning it on for 10% bonus exp, as no one keeps it on at max level unless they want to be ganked.

Then there's Blizzards new Zone - those Caverns. Already dead. Why? Enemy density is too high, enemies and their elite stacks have numerous mechanics, way too much HP/Damage, it's a rare chase, and getting rep for the new faction is a massive grind as they massively reduced the rep players get for activities. Blizzard is trying to force the zone as a group zone, but most players are just leaving the zone as it isn't fun and is extremely annoying. Especially the left side (that is the most mob dense) that constantly warns that they'll be dismounted.

Lose the insults. Uncalled for. Especially when you don't know anything upon the matter.

You also get 3 additional abilities/passives you can choose from which can be pretty good depending on the job while in war mode. You get some more world quests in war mode as well and another gearing path if pvp is your thing too. I agree it's sad that the caverns isn't as busy as forbidden reach was but I think that is also due to not being locked to the caverns to upgrade the gear unlike with forbidden reach. Literally everything you do gives you flightstones and you can get the crests from a ton of different things as well. I think if the gear drops from the rares wasn't really vendor trash it would be more popular but heroic dungeons (which are as brain dead as expert roulette) give better gear than the rare mobs most of the time.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

You also get 3 additional abilities/passives you can choose from which can be pretty good depending on the job while in war mode. You get some more world quests in war mode as well and another gearing path if pvp is your thing too. I agree it's sad that the caverns isn't as busy as forbidden reach was but I think that is also due to not being locked to the caverns to upgrade the gear unlike with forbidden reach. Literally everything you do gives you flightstones and you can get the crests from a ton of different things as well. I think if the gear drops from the rares wasn't really vendor trash it would be more popular but heroic dungeons (which are as brain dead as expert roulette) give better gear than the rare mobs most of the time.

Blizzard let Forbidden Reach die (by not scaling it down, so if you aren't in the only raid group there then might as well stay out of the zone) to try and force people into those Caverns and those Caverns are dead because it isn't fun being in there. I don't understand how Blizzard could design the caverns (especially the left side of the zone constantly dismounting you and having massive mob density that all hit hard and have a lot of HP) like that and thought people would find it fun. They just abandoned it. I feel bad for the few players that are still in the Caverns as they want to do the content but the Zone was balanced around having as much player density as the Forbidden Reach - only it has WAY less. So, players are struggling just to do the daily/weekly quests there as the Mob density and scaling isn't solo friendly. Doesn't help that packs on the left side are almost always 3-5 mob pulls, or even more with a massive HP super elite nearby on the bridges. Then there are multiple mobs in said groups that can shield and/or heal as well as with knock backs or pulls. Cannot interrupt them all, but good luck trying to get a group to do it since after the first day it's a ghost town. As players that do want to do the rep want to get it over with on the first day and then just not go back to the Caverns til next week.

[Amenara]

Blizzard let Forbidden Reach die (by not scaling it down, so if you aren't in the only raid group there then might as well stay out of the zone) to try and force people into those Caverns and those Caverns are dead because it isn't fun being in there. I don't understand how Blizzard could design the caverns (especially the left side of the zone constantly dismounting you and having massive mob density that all hit hard and have a lot of HP) like that and thought people would find it fun. They just abandoned it. I feel bad for the few players that are still in the Caverns as they want to do the content but the Zone was balanced around having as much player density as the Forbidden Reach - only it has WAY less. So, players are struggling just to do the daily/weekly quests there as the Mob density and scaling isn't solo friendly. Doesn't help that packs on the left side are almost always 3-5 mob pulls, or even more with a massive HP super elite nearby on the bridges. Then there are multiple mobs in said groups that can shield and/or heal as well as with knock backs or pulls. Cannot interrupt them all, but good luck trying to get a group to do it since after the first day it's a ghost town. As players that do want to do the rep want to get it over with on the first day and then just not go back to the Caverns til next week.

I mean Forbidden Reach was dead as soon as they changed the way gearing works with the last patch, the rare spawns not being scaled down doesn't matter as you get essentially a free set of gear by doing the story for the caverns which can be upgraded to be better than the stuff from the Reach. I do wish they would update the rares to make them still appealing but they definitely did it to get people into the new zone. I guess I don't mind the elite quests as I just find one or two others to go do the quests after I do the boss quests in the random raids that form. I did mine at night on the weekend and we had a 40 person raid going to do the boss mobs and then had a small group and we knocked out the rest of the quests so I guess YMMV. The dismounting is pretty obnoxious, I'll give you that but I adapted to it and just find a safe place to land and reset the debuff if I need to get further in if I don't have the speed to make it in one go. The little "fate" style encounters around the caverns is how people capped the mole people rep in the first week I think as they are pretty rapidly spawning and there are a lot of them to cycle through. I guess overall I don't mind the caverns as a zone but I haven't really had many issues as a casual going in there and getting a group when I need one.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

I mean Forbidden Reach was dead as soon as they changed the way gearing works with the last patch, the rare spawns not being scaled down doesn't matter as you get essentially a free set of gear by doing the story for the caverns which can be upgraded to be better than the stuff from the Reach. I do wish they would update the rares to make them still appealing but they definitely did it to get people into the new zone. I guess I don't mind the elite quests as I just find one or two others to go do the quests after I do the boss quests in the random raids that form. I did mine at night on the weekend and we had a 40 person raid going to do the boss mobs and then had a small group and we knocked out the rest of the quests so I guess YMMV. The dismounting is pretty obnoxious, I'll give you that but I adapted to it and just find a safe place to land and reset the debuff if I need to get further in if I don't have the speed to make it in one go. The little "fate" style encounters around the caverns is how people capped the mole people rep in the first week I think as they are pretty rapidly spawning and there are a lot of them to cycle through. I guess overall I don't mind the caverns as a zone but I haven't really had many issues as a casual going in there and getting a group when I need one.

They easily could have let Forbidden Reach give Flightstones at least.

Blizzard chose not to as they wanted it to be abandoned. That's my issue with Blizzard designing. They want players pushed towards the latest new zone (and balance it around a lot of players pushed into it) and will gladly kill the other zones that came before it. Now if you missed out then you're gonna have a rough time doing the stuff from Forbidden Reach like the Vault.

[Shinkuno]

I know you haven't played WoW in years.

Unlike you i have as played as recently as this year and because unlike you i know pvp servers dont exist anymore, havent for years.

[Ransu]

Unlike you i have as played as recently as this year and because unlike you i know pvp servers dont exist anymore, havent for years.

To be fair, I played WoW pretty recently and while I'm aware of the whole pvp instance stuff, I had no idea pvp servers were no longer a thing. Never really paid much attention to server lists.

[R041]

WoW PvP wouldn't be dead if they just sync'd everyone to a more fair level. However, doing that would kill the gear grind and take away the fantasy of geared players owning entire battlegrounds by themselves due to gear and unbalanced classes.

Open World PvP is dead in WoW. PvP servers are just gankfests/ganging up on players minding their business. Not to mention with Dragonflight, it's very easy to just... avoid PvP, which players do on PvP servers unless they have an unfair advantage or numbers on their side. That's why almost all PvP servers are either massively in favor of one faction over the other - population-wise.

Dueling isn't a big thing anymore due to classes being unbalanced. No one wants to duel, say... a Ret Paladin, as they will destroy nearly every class in 1 vs 1.

No one raids major cities anymore. I haven't seen a Major city raided since Classic to Cataclysm. With everyone in Valdrakken, why would anyone attack Orgrimmar or Stormwind? Not to mention that the gear/rep/M+ grind takes up a LOT of time, so players aren't just gonna group up anymore and raid a Major City when they get nothing out of it. Not to mention that being able to Fly kills the spirit of City Raids too.

They haven't gotten a new Battleground in YEARS. Let that sink in. Not to mention that Battlegrounds are extremely unbalanced and after the first week, they're just a place for overgeared players to farm honor off less geared players.

Arena? The population doing arena has dropped drastically as players would rather farm World Quests, Raid, or do the toxic M+ gameplay. Very few seriously play Arena anymore, most are just buying carries which Blizzard allows in Trade Chat. M+ and Raids can have carries sold in Trade chat too, as this promotes players buying WoW Tokens to afford it. That's why Blizzard no longer bans carries and let's them be openly advertised.

No, I wouldn't want any of that in FF14.

.. When was the last time you actually played WoW? 'Cause most of what you said isn't true. (Except for the city raid, no reason to, and most people are in Valdrakken - How you gonna raid that? lol)

Open World PvP is very much alive, the pvp gear syncs as soon as you're in combat with another person open world or in an instance. The whole idea of the new PvP changes in Dragonflight were to allow equal opportunity PvP while allowing the PvP gear grind to be transferrable to PvE ilvl instead.

Also yeah, "PvP Servers"

Not that I necessarily need any of that in XIV, but come on. Use facts.