Did Zenos ruin Endwalker

[EgilTheStressedMage]

He was on his way to do that in Garlemald. The WoL stopped him despite occupying another body and having the odds heavily turned against them.

Cop out, nothing more. Any other RPG would have had someone die.

He planned on doing this as well prior to Fandaniel taking Zodiark for himself. Zenos planned on taking everything away from the WoL because he wanted their unbridled rage turned on him as they fought on a pile of ashes. Remember? If this actually came to fruition, there wouldn't much of a game left to play.

Black Cat has a villain that is essentially Zenos in all regards. I wanted something like that for him, going on about how they waste their strength and it actually pisses him off that anyone would choose that. The fight would end not in his death but to be depowered to being a simple man unable to fight ever again, being cared for those he thinks of as lesser. Or he could have gone the way of Octopath Traveller II's final boss which I wish I could talk about without having a bunch of hidden boxes.

This fight was always going to end in a solo instance, and because it is MSQ the difficulty wasn't going to be road blocker. You don't have to like it, but Zenos being an 8-man encounter doesn't fit the narrative that was set for his character. That was the Shinryu encounter back in SB.

The narrative was mid at best. I wanted this character to make me care that he's still here instead of going "oh, you're here at the literal last possible second, okay then". Like come on.

Again. Like what? It is perfectly fine that how well Zenos was done as a character is subjective. No one is going to get anywhere trying to convince those who hate him to like him, and those who like him to hate him. And they actually did do something, now that I think about it. His grandfather built Garlemald and the imperial army. The grandson reduced it to ash. Both happen off screen.

That should not be all he did though. I wanted him to do more. I wanted him to earn the prestige of surviving his expansion. Instead I got 4Kids writing style and unearned savagery. I wanted him to appear in Elpis and manipulate everything to get what he wanted but events would twist it to have a secondary objective. Or like how Zodiark would be created so it would keep him from destroying the world after he'd already done it in Elpis. And because he was an ascian in all but name, would require a massive amount of light to be destroyed for good, which we would get out of the fight with Hydaelyn who would not be Venat but instead be the Meteion who was not absorbed into the hive mind. I would have Zenos absorb the hatred and despair of all the Meteia and add that power to his own, and would absolutely have Venat mention this to all the people of Etherys and would do everything they could only to hold him back while the world unraveled. Zenos would not be destroying the world because life bad, but people bad. He would point out most if not all of those worlds perished because of the actions of the greedy. They would only be able to separate soul from body and not be able to destroy either, so they would have Zodiark guard the soul and Hydaelyn guard the body, which right after her death he would claim while already having Zodiark's darkness while the WoL would have the light. And they would not go to space, Zenos would be in the core and it basically becomes the finale of a certain other game at that point.

I'm more than aware how trash all that sounds, but I personally think with the time and effort they could make it work. It would unfortunately require massive if not total rewrites. He wouldn't even have to be a hatesink, just make me care about this character beyond being an annoying pain in the ass. Make me hate him or make me empathize with him, don't just do what EW did and try to have a middle ground.

[Archeron]

Don't worry Zenos is coming back for a redemption ark. Any animosity in FFXIV is resolved by just being "nice" to people, and having burger cutscenes.

[Gemina]

Cop out, nothing more. Any other RPG would have had someone die.

Kefka Palazzo, one of the franchise's best villains from one of the franchise's best told stories, never actually kills any of the main cast. I suppose you could say Shadow dies, but this is up to the player if he does and if so, this death isn't intentional but happenstance due to Kefka destroying the world as it was. Shadow also does not become part of the main cast permanently until you locate him in the World of Ruin. You can't kill a character just for the sake of killing off a character. I get the feeling that this comment is targeted more at the Scions than Zenos.

Black Cat has a villain that is essentially Zenos in all regards. I wanted something like that for him, going on about how they waste their strength and it actually pisses him off that anyone would choose that. The fight would end not in his death but to be depowered to being a simple man unable to fight ever again, being cared for those he thinks of as lesser. Or he could have gone the way of Octopath Traveller II's final boss which I wish I could talk about without having a bunch of hidden boxes.

I am not familiar with this. The only Black Cat I know of is Felicia Hardy from the Marvel Comics. You'll have to use a villain I am more familiar with so I understand better where you are coming from.

The narrative was mid at best. I wanted this character to make me care that he's still here instead of going "oh, you're here at the literal last possible second, okay then". Like come on.

This is fair. It's your view and take on how things played out, and it wasn't to your approval. Nothing wrong with that at all. For me, Zenos coming to the Dead Sun was immensely poetic, and because my WoL is female, I also romanticized it. This is the only way Zenos could ever be romantic due to way his character is. And while I never considered Zenos and my WoL to be lovers in the traditional sense, a love they shared was the thrill of battle, and the two clashing amidst the stars in an illuminated section of outer space at the edge of existence was absolutely epic! My heart melted.

....

...I'm more than aware how trash all that sounds, but I personally think with the time and effort they could make it work. It would unfortunately require massive if not total rewrites. He wouldn't even have to be a hatesink, just make me care about this character beyond being an annoying pain in the ass. Make me hate him or make me empathize with him, don't just do what EW did and try to have a middle ground.

I don't think that's trash, but I also know there was no way Zenos would have met your approval with such expectations. I am sorry he fell short of those.

[TaleraRistain]

I'll bite a bit.

I don't think Zenos ruined Endwalker. I think a lot of people really like him, and enjoyed seeing his conclusion (please god, let that be his conclusion). I'll admit, him showing up and having a couple of the best quotes in the expansion doesn't hurt as well:

"I assume this is your prey. But why does it still live? Surely it is no match for you"

"I would have thought you to be above something so banal as despair. Am I mistaken?"

Especially after 20 hours of "oh woe is us", having him just laugh it off was pretty funny.

I loved that. I think we needed it. We had just sent our friends away. We were going to face this thing down alone. Probably thought we were going to die doing it.

Then Veget-er Zenos shows up like "WTF it's not dead yet?" with absolute confidence in us and no doubt in his mind that we could best it. Something pretty powerful in a realm where emotions are king.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Don't worry Zenos is coming back for a redemption ark. Any animosity in FFXIV is resolved by just being "nice" to people, and having burger cutscenes.

[Coratanni]

zenos is the only good part of stormblood and he made endwalker for me

This. I really didn't like Stormblood. The Trials, dungeons and raids were fun. The story and most of the characters however were not very good. Zenos was one of the few good aspects that I did like about it.

[Carin-Eri]

I loved that. I think we needed it. We had just sent our friends away. We were going to face this thing down alone. Probably thought we were going to die doing it.

Then Veget-er Zenos shows up like "WTF it's not dead yet?" with absolute confidence in us and no doubt in his mind that we could best it. Something pretty powerful in a realm where emotions are king.

Nicely put!

Likely to be an unpopular opinion, but I loved Zeno's appearance in Ultima Thule. I mean, he sails the stars, breaks reality, shittalks the apocalypse and then basically tells you you are better than whatever the hell that thing is.... I was smiling like an idiot the whole time!

[drtasteyummy]

Zenos is like a shitty version of Frieza that nobody asked for. You neither really like or hate him, he's just there while you mildly acknowledge his forced presence into the story.

[Sir_Tonberry]

I didn't like Zenos being such a major part of EW and it's even more frustrating that they decided to give him a constant post death presence through Zero making frequent comparisons between Zenos and the WOL. it' like dating someone who won't shut up about their ex. What's their obsession with this character?

[DPZ2]

Encouraging players to play with NPC's instead of actual players in an MMO is... something else, and is not normal.

SE is aiming for a wider audience than typical MMORPG players. It's a different normal than before, but one that ensures that players who are in the game for the Final Fantasy, and not the MMORPG, can more easily complete the MSQ.

You could level up through the entirety of World of Warcraft over the years without ever touching a dungeon instance or playing in a group with other people. Same for most MMORPGs over the last 20 years. FFXIV is the only game that requires a player to engage in group play in order to level up.