TOP cleared with no healers

[Stormpeaks]

So are you arguing that you want the high end content more difficult to force people to use healers? Or at least that healers are much more important in high end content?

If not that, how do you want high end content to change?

it's almost like you are supposed to need healers in high end content

[Sebazy]

Absolutely! What I equate this to is walking a tight rope without the security of a safety net. It's takes an exceptional amount of talent, skill, practice, and confidence. It's actually quite amazing.

Meanwhile back in reality....

https://youtu.be/T6MvwQWBMVg?t=476

Sure, no disorganised or casual group is going to achieve this, but then no disorganised or casual group is going to clear TOP regardless.

Trying to suggest that a group needs to be 'exceptionally skilled' or needs 'perfect flawless play' is a flat out lie, either to yourself or to us (don't care which). There are a wealth of errors and mistakes including wasted and missed mitigation and healing abilities from the group. Yet they still made it through.

Please forward my criticism onto your Uncle Yoshida when you get a chance Mr self appointed community, developer and balance team rep. Thanks.

[Boblawblah]

Meanwhile back in reality....

https://youtu.be/T6MvwQWBMVg?t=476

Sure, no disorganised or casual group is going to achieve this, but then no disorganised or casual group is going to clear TOP regardless.

Trying to suggest that a group needs to be 'exceptionally skilled' or needs 'perfect flawless play' is a flat out lie, either to yourself or to us (don't care which). There are a wealth of errors and mistakes including wasted and missed mitigation and healing abilities from the group. Yet they still made it through.

Please forward my criticism onto your Uncle Yoshida when you get a chance Mr self appointed community, developer and balance team rep. Thanks.

So should TOP be harder in your opinion?

[ForteNightshade]

So are you arguing that you want the high end content more difficult to force people to use healers? Or at least that healers are much more important in high end content?

If not that, how do you want high end content to change?

Others have provided far better examples of healer changes on the Healer forums but to keep it simple, I either want more outgoing damage to actually necessitate healers or an overhaul on their DPS kit to give them something to do in downtime. The latter wouldn't impact casual players who simply won't press these new buttons anyway just like they don't use Battle Litany, Arcane Circle or other buffs properly. This is why the removal of Kaiten baffled and upset so many players. It achieved almost nothing due to bad players never pressing it to begin with and average and above players never asking for its removal in the first place. All it accomplished is watering down Samurai's gauge to be a "spam this whenever you feel like." Unless you're optimizing, of course.

For a specific example, take Barbarriccia. What I love about that fight is the fast pace nature of her damage. She's constantly keeps hitting you with incremental triage that leads up to a bigger burst. If her damage output was actually high, she's been one of the better fights in the entire game because you'd actually have to heal. The issue is since Shadowbringers, the devs keep introducing more healing, be it on the Healers themselves or on other roles but haven't adjusted the content to account for it. That mindset also contributes to why we absolutely destroy synced content. Their balance is all about accessibility. Which is great, in theory, but not when it's to this extreme.

We've essentially hit the opposite end of Gordias and Midas where everything hit far too hard for what was available at the time. Now nothing hits hard enough even at the higher difficulty levels. I mean, look at Rubicante. Yes, it's an EX but do you really think it should be clearable with 22 deaths on release? Or that we can drop tanks or healers entirely because literally nothing he does, even the tank buster, actually hurts.

[fulminating]

It’s not a question of difficulty, it’s a question of designing healers (and the other roles) for this game, not some hypothetical one that may or may not have existed.

Regarding rubicante, with enough copium could it be a meta commentary on the four fiends being a bit rubbish really?

[Sebazy]

So should TOP be harder in your opinion?

No? I'm not sure why you think that? I think Top (And frankly, Savage + Ultimate in general) needs to be more inventive with how they get healer engagement going.

We've had fights that were great fun in the past. Remember A5S? Solo healing + handling potions was intense and an all time favourite of mine. Remember A2S where the healer would handle gob walkers? Not a classic turn but it was a neat distraction and I certainly enjoyed it. DemonChad where both tanks were getting curb stomped all fight long often with mechanics that prevented them from being near each other for AoE heals? Good times. Godka where the movement heavy dodge intermission phases were literally the med break for the healers because the rest of the fight was an absolute barrage of damage and 1 shots. Even Coil had little things such as Imdugud's Prey forcing us to shield our DPS or fights that forced the group to spread making it impossible to lean on AoE healing alone.

By comparison modern fights base their difficulty around how much mitigation is required to survive x raid wide. This is a problem because A) Raidwide mitigation is only partially our responsibility now, thus even without healers, a team such as this still has plenty of mitigation and B) Said raidwides may be literally minutes apart.

[GaiusDrakon]

there's a clear correlation between modern healer enjoyer and their inability to understand the simple point that the TOP clear is an indication of a problem, not the problem itself

what's the common variable? IQ?

[Somnolence]

Others have provided far better examples of healer changes on the Healer forums but to keep it simple, I either want more outgoing damage to actually necessitate healers or an overhaul on their DPS kit to give them something to do in downtime.

Once again, going to remind everyone, that there is already a healer in the game that can clear savage and has more than few buttons for DPS - blue mage. Their existing strong specialized heals might be enough that I would not be surprised if BLU does not get new heal spells in upcoming update.

All existing content is already clearable for this kind of healer so reworking existing healers to be more DPS focused will not require any content rework. And having few strong heals instead of existing fluff would allow to design new content to actually hurt.

[Sequora]

This doesn’t apply to 99.99% of the player base.

[Shinkuno]

This doesn’t apply to 99.99% of the player base.

Yes because they dont do ultimate. But casuals can instead do dungeons without healers. WAR + 3 DPS can do any dungeon and doesnt require any ElItE SkIlLz. Healers are obsolete in 90% of the content and the 10% is as a safety net when things go south, if they dont, then healers are not needed period