TOP cleared with no healers

[VictorSpoils]

Like they did with PvP?

Hey, so long as all the other DoW still have an MP gauge, what the heck.

[Gemina]

Joy. Now we're going to have to deal with SE making judgements on the game because of midcore players taking the actions of top tier players who are playing the highest tier of combat duties as law.

Basically my thoughts. Throughout MMO history, situations such as this that make what shouldn't be possible, possible. It takes exceptionally skilled and coordinated players to pull off. Meanwhile, for us scrubs, plenty of situations that warrant healers are all over the place. I still haven't cleared Rubicante EX without the group getting busted up by Immolation with spread AoEs. I also just recently had a Orbonne run where about 2/3rds of the alliance was wiped out by the combined mechanics prior to the phase transition for the last boss. There was no way that raid was going to get saved without healers.

I've said it many times here. The more skilled a group is, the less they need healers. It's not news, and has been this way for a very long time. That doesn't mean I'm ok with that. It's kind of a bummer that healers are needed more the less skilled a group is. It's one of my biggest gripes in this game. However, if they scale up healing requirements, clear rates will drop like an anvil in a shallow lake.

This won't do anything to change the dev's stance on healing. They might congratulate the players that accomplished this feat though. It really is exceptional, and hats off to them.

[MisterNublet]

However, if they scale up healing requirements, clear rates will drop like an anvil in a shallow lake.

Might have the opposite effect. [Skilled] Healers might return to the job because the current design is atrocious and boring to play.

Before someone brings up this current savage tier, I can already tell you don't play a healer if you think MIT checks are heal checks.

This won't do anything to change the dev's stance on healing. They might congratulate the players that accomplished this feat though. It really is exceptional, and hats off to them.

You're right, they won't. The dev team is showing just how mediocre they are with Endwalker, and it'll just be more of the same come next expansion. Just means more people will either ditch the Healer role, or quit the game come 7.0.

[Gemina]

Just means more people will either ditch the Healer role, or quit the game come 7.0.

What actually makes you think either of those will happen, other than wishful thinking?

Try this, go to Radz at Han, Limsa, and Gridania and fill the chat logs with shouts that TOP was cleared without healers, and see what kind of response you get.

[ForteNightshade]

Monkey's paw just spasms wildly as SE completely misreads the situation at hand and somehow manage to dumb down healers even further.

Sadly, that is exactly what they'll do because we've already seen it happen. Bard was once the most popular DPS in the game but a handful of players would whine it was "too complex". Which led to the lobotomization it underwent from Shadowbringers onward all in the name of accessibility. Turns out making the job simpler didn't bring in as many new players but certainly drove away many who once liked Bard as it's tumbled all the way down to being the least played DPS. Even Black Mage is more popular nowadays.

The devs already know there is no satisfying everyone so they don’t even try. It’s good they don’t. I’m pretty sure if next expansion they gave healers mains everything they been asking for there will be people still complaining about something. The devs just can’t win.

These kinda post are so redundant now.

Thing is... they haven't really satisfied anyone here. Complaints about the monotony of healer gameplay isn't coming exclusively from the raid community. In fact, I've heard just as a loud a vocalization from mid-level and even casual players who don't partake in a lot of high end content, or any at all. They're also bored because half their kit is utterly meaningless. Lilybell isn't exciting to your average player because when will they ever use it? Not even a lot of the EXs this expansion demand it, much less 24 mans or dungeons. That isn't to say it doesn't have its uses in those content but when Assize and Asylum can handle everything, it's not exactly hype to have yet another heal. Not to mention more casual players are playing how the devs thinks we should: using Medica and Medica II. Which only nullifies the value of things like Lilybell futher.

There's such a thing is not trying to satisfy everyone and just satisfying no one instead. It's lazy design that we're four years into Healer's only gameplay loop being spam a single nuke 500 times. And no, that isn't a hyperbolic number. I've had 500+ casts of Glare in 24 mans, more than every other button combined.

[Katish]

Weren't Ultimates the reason healers haven't been touched i.e the reason to be. We've all known that was a lie, but seeing it is another thing. It doesn't matter that it takes coordination to do this, the fact it's even doable in the first place should ring alarms as healers reason to be is now questionable. This is why they shouldn't take the healing route when balancing healers and instead look to other mmos in how healing is operated as a support with good damage, damaging skills, combos etc. If they are not going to ramp up damage so this isn't possible, allow for support skills and damaging skills on the skillsets to make up for it [add back value to the role]. Increase enemy hp and difficulty so healers dmg and support is taken into consideration also. It wouldn't solve all the issues but it would be better than what they've been doing, bloating the kits with healing.

I have nothing against skilled players doing this without a healer, the issue lies that it's possible when the reason they gave that healer kits would not be touched is because difficult content would make it hard on us to do anything but and we should just go play ultimate. If ultimate doesn't require, than what is the healer purpose?

[MisterNublet]

Try this, go to Radz at Han, Limsa, and Gridania and fill the chat logs with shouts that TOP was cleared without healers, and see what kind of response you get.

And? This isn't some gotcha that you think it is. TOP is just another example showing how poor of a state the healer role is currently in and the state of utility among DPS/Tanks being too powerful.

They're not needed for casual/dungeon content. They're a snooze fest if your team is even halfway competent in Extreme/Savage content. They have their entire dps kit starting at level 4, and press the same button ~90% of the time.

No one wants to continue playing a role that's only function is to be there for garbage dps/tank players. That's not how you design a fun and interesting role.

What actually makes you think either of those will happen, other than wishful thinking?

There will be other MMOs coming out. I've also never seen or heard dps players or tank players fight to see who can be the healer for the next tier, as hard as I've seen healers fight over who can gtfo of the role.

[Gemina]

And? This isn't some gotcha that you think it is. TOP is just another example showing how poor of a state the healer role is currently in and the state of utility among DPS/Tanks being too powerful.

It's not a gotcha. The gotcha is what's being attempted by saying a set of skilled players cleared TOP without healers. Exception is never the rule. Instead of commending the efforts of those players, you are instead using it to chastise the dev team and the state of healing in this game. I can't even begin to express how shameful that is. What if TOP was cleared without players using their soulstones? Are we going to start saying that jobs are useless as well? I bring that up because Iirc, Creator was cleared by a group of players not using their Soulstones back during HW, and nothing like that was said. Those players were indeed congratulated. Also, I am actually genuinely curious to what kind of response a player would get if they went to the game's more populated areas during peak times, and started shouting this. At the very least, it would clue you in to how much the general playerbase cares about such things.

No one wants to continue playing a role that's only function is to be there for garbage dps/tank players. That's not how you design a fun and interesting role.

I enjoy it. So do a lot of other players. However, I don't think the problem is so much with healing as I do that other roles, particularly tanks have a ridiculous amount of self sustain. Also encounter design in general. Of course, the typical rebuttal to this argument is I don't even know what I am talking about, and/or I enjoy mediocre gameplay and crap job design.

There will be other MMOs coming out. I've also never seen or heard dps players or tank players fight to see who can be the healer for the next tier, as hard as I've seen healers fight over who can gtfo of the role.

Ok. Players skipping FFXIV to play other mmos will affect all the roles. Not just healers. Do you think just healer mains are going to jump ship to play other games? Also, quite often when I hop into PF when I am in the mood to heal content, those slots are often filled up, and I have to go as DPS instead, or do something else. Whose experience is more valid here?

[Themarvin]

They should do something about the enrage timers, if that is possible... same with the old Ultimates so they fit in with the damage bonusses various jobs get each time you get a new expansion...

If you can do it without heals, take 30 seconds off the current enrage.

[Boblawblah]

Eh, 90%+ of players still need healers in their groups. A very small minority being able to clear content with a non-standard group is okay imo.