Dps jobs share at least 90% of their abilities

[EgilTheStressedMage]

I would love 'Time Attack' type content, and add challenges to them. That's basically M+. I'm just here asking for literally anything tbh. Give me more things like Treasure Dungeons, but spread them out randomly. Give me Time Attack Treasure Dungeons. lol

Give me Eureka / Bozja content in open world, why do our FATEs suck so much? Why do our Hunts suck so much? Make world Hunts be Critical Engagements instead, give random world mobs the ability to kill my dumbass, let them roam wide ranges. Make mobs in dungeons random, force me to use utility. Reduce the amount of res RDM/SMN have. Make me think about when to use my single-target rotation over my AoE. Or when to actually stun/sleep something.

I just can't stand the simplicity and predictability in all content that isn't Extreme/Savage.

Everything 'midcore' is just locked away in it's own thing, with it's own limited rewards. Why can't these experiences just be naturally scattered through the world or micro-experiences?

It's not even that we don't have much midcore either, it's that basic content refuses to respect our ability to play video games with situational awareness that doesn't just involve dodging an orange rectangle. Basic dungeons in Endwalker treat me like it's my first time playing the game, but still require players to run through the whole ARR-EW series unless they skip. So it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, especially when ARR duns/world were more challenging.

Idk man, I don't have all the answers - I just know nothing feels good to me right now. Part of that is burnout, part of it is frustration because I've been waiting on changes since even ARR, and they just don't happen.

I actually had some more ideas for the, let’s call it casual m+, that makes items relevant while nerfing all the get out of jail free cards. I wanted to post it last night but I had more ideas and it was getting late so I saved it to notepad. When I get home from the gym, I’ll make more changes and drop a draft. Here’s a sneak peak: I’m nerfing all resses into the ground but giving massive potencies to healing pots. Also allowing crafting of all traditional Final Fantasy items.

Might even have savage variants but that’s for another day considering what I’m placing in this one.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Couldn't go to the gym, leg started bothering me after work, and yes I was planning on only using the treadmill.

Anyway: Bosses would be buffed out the ass to match the trash from the w2w pulls. Autos from bosses hit for the same amount as Savage autos and will have Savage tankbusters. Raidwides will fire off at random and will increase in damage throughout the encounter. Bosses will now use their models as telegraphs for attacks and no longer rely on the easy mode orange spaces. Basically pre-neutered Coincounter, the boss no one had a problem with. Tank busters can now target non tanks but will show up as a two person stack marker. There will only be a marker then, all the other tankbusters will require the tanks knowledge of the encounter such as after two or three autos. Later the marker will be a simple debuff called "Impending Death" and will read "A strong sense of dread permeates you, requiring a powerful defense." Tank will get a similar one called "Sense of Dread" and it'd read "You sense someone is in danger, and they need your help!" Both of you have four seconds to stack, failure to complete obviously kills the non tank but will also add a "Guilt" debuff for as long as the DPS remains dead, halving your defense and attack and it'd read "You suck, uninstall." Nah, but for real it'd be "Your failure to keep your ally alive cuts you down to the soul, crushing your motivation to continue" or something dramatic like that and less wordy. Yes, this would make the Tank more responsible as they should be, right now there's no chance for a wipe to happen unless the Healer forgets they aren't a Tank. (tbc bc 3k limit in 2023)

[EgilTheStressedMage]

(cont'd)
Potions will absolutely matter: Paralysis won't let you do anything except use a potion, Petrify counts as a death and will require Gold Needle but you won't get the Weakness debuff, Blind flat out darkens everything but your menus and hotbars and disables targetting so use Eyedrops, Phoenix Downs have a purpose because all resses will now 5000 MP and apply a Drained debuff which prevents MP regen for fifteen seconds and you'll be able to craft those as well. However they will require drops obtained from normal dungeons and can drop from any chest, and yes you must run them with a full party. You will only be able to obtain one once per day, so RNG won't screw other players. But the players who didn't receive one will have a higher roll chance in the form of a buff, "Life's Bounty" where you roll no lower than 20 on the next, 40 on the next, etc. until you have one. They will breathe life back into content that sorely need it. They weren't easy to get in the classics and they shouldn't be easy now. It's time death in this game had an actual penalty. There will be no HQ Phoenix Downs. Remedy will require HQ versions of all debuff curing potions, you will not be able to craft them otherwise. There will be no HQ Remedy. Silence disables magic and can only be applied to casters, really stupid they can drop on melee, tanks, and ranged. Poison will also slow in addition to damage and become stop if not cured with an Antidote. Slow and Stop still do exactly what they say: slow you down and stop you from doing anything. And all players will be able to use potions on others within 30y of each other, FFVI had pincer battles that allowed this nonsense so it would be fitting here.

In the event all DPS of a trial, dungeon, or alliance dies, the Healer will be able to use a unique once per run skill that allows them to full res the dead DPS without MP cost. Can only be used in instances. They will not receive weakness debuffs. A Healer LB3 if you will.

Okay that's all I got so far. Originally I went with all MP for Resses and thirty seconds of Drained but I thought that was too punishing for a new system and especially casuals who want to try it out. The rest seems alright to me. Thoughts?

[Ransu]

And in turn makes everything absolutely boring to play because they are actual copies of each other

Then unsubscribe.

[Stormpeaks]

Then unsubscribe.

Good comeback bro, I'm impressed

[dspguy]

It's more complicated than just designing a new Job, they've pigeonholed all design. A class/character in a video game is a reflection of it's environment and the ways it can navigate said environment.

Very true. In other MMOs I've played (among them EQ1, FFXI and LOTRO), there was some content you simply could NOT clear without a certain job/class. Some content required crowd control. Some content required a job with certain weapon or spell damage types since the enemies were resistant to some of it.

Leveling these other jobs/classes was a pain. Sometimes, if you were lucky, it just meant leveling another job and then changing to that job to run the content. In others, it meant rolling another character from scratch or spending days (weeks?) begging for help.

For a game where leveling jobs is easy, it boggles my mind that we've been forced into the design we have. The OP and this poster are spot on. And isn't just DPS. I did a deep-dive into tank abilities a few months ago. I can set up my tanks with nearly identical hotbars and play them blind. If I could blank out what the abilities were called (and their icons), any player could play any tank job at probably 95% efficiency if they can play ANY of the 4 tank jobs. That's how job design is in this game.

The only differences are the style of gear and the animations. That's pretty much it. We can't have a real blue mage since it would break the trifecta. We can't have a LOTRO-style warden because it would break the trifecta. We can't have an EQ-style enchanter since it would break the trifecta. We can't have an FFXI-style bard because it would break the trifecta. We can't have a true solo job because ALL jobs can solo.

However, some of this is just part and parcel of making a casual MMORPG. Sadly, the players tend to force developers into this position. When we have content (savage) that has tight DPS checks, players realized that the way to clear it with less gear upgrades is burst windows. Jobs that don't fit those windows were less desirable. SE's solution was just to fit more jobs into those burst windows over the last few expansions. That's just one example. There's a reason why players are so laser-focused on what jobs do the most DPS when played optimally. So, SE has done their best to make the choices more varied by leveling the playing field as much as possible.

[Slayer25c]

Good comeback bro, I'm impressed

Lmao u mad

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Very true. In other MMOs I've played (among them EQ1, FFXI and LOTRO), there was some content you simply could NOT clear without a certain job/class. Some content required crowd control. Some content required a job with certain weapon or spell damage types since the enemies were resistant to some of it.

Leveling these other jobs/classes was a pain. Sometimes, if you were lucky, it just meant leveling another job and then changing to that job to run the content. In others, it meant rolling another character from scratch or spending days (weeks?) begging for help.

For a game where leveling jobs is easy, it boggles my mind that we've been forced into the design we have. The OP and this poster are spot on. And isn't just DPS. I did a deep-dive into tank abilities a few months ago. I can set up my tanks with nearly identical hotbars and play them blind. If I could blank out what the abilities were called (and their icons), any player could play any tank job at probably 95% efficiency if they can play ANY of the 4 tank jobs. That's how job design is in this game.

The only differences are the style of gear and the animations. That's pretty much it. We can't have a real blue mage since it would break the trifecta. We can't have a LOTRO-style warden because it would break the trifecta. We can't have an EQ-style enchanter since it would break the trifecta. We can't have an FFXI-style bard because it would break the trifecta. We can't have a true solo job because ALL jobs can solo.

However, some of this is just part and parcel of making a casual MMORPG. Sadly, the players tend to force developers into this position. When we have content (savage) that has tight DPS checks, players realized that the way to clear it with less gear upgrades is burst windows. Jobs that don't fit those windows were less desirable. SE's solution was just to fit more jobs into those burst windows over the last few expansions. That's just one example. There's a reason why players are so laser-focused on what jobs do the most DPS when played optimally. So, SE has done their best to make the choices more varied by leveling the playing field as much as possible.

Why not apply the PVP combat to PVE and see how that works for a bit? I’ve heard nothing but good things so far. Give it it’s own mode like Mann Vs Machine in TF2 and if enough people like it, throw out the current system and replace it with that.

[RyuDragnier]

Why not apply the PVP combat to PVE and see how that works for a bit? I’ve heard nothing but good things so far. Give it it’s own mode like Mann Vs Machine in TF2 and if enough people like it, throw out the current system and replace it with that.

That was the level of individuality we had originally in ARR and HW. But because certain jobs were just not taken because they were outclassed by others, the devs decided against that remaining. Basically people crunched numbers, certain jobs were lacking with certain utilities or synergy, and those jobs were almost never taken as a result. Thus leading to the dumbing down of jobs by the devs. We've tried this, and the playerbase itself is why we can't have nice things.

[VirusOnline]

That wouldnt be terribly hard.

Something akin to an elemental duelist, where you apply certain elemental debuffs to proc other effects when using different abilities.

You could even make it a status based gamplay where you apply dots/debuffs based on what elements combine.

Fire/Ice/Lightning/Earth

Fire+ice = water
Fire+Light = Explosive
Fire+Earth = Lava

Ice+Earth = Frozen
Ice+Lightning = ???

Lightning+Earth = ???

Each combination could apply different DoT or Status effects that help your party.

There we go, a job that doesn't have a gauge and plays extremely unique compared to anything else in the game.

You don't need a job gauge for anything. It's a mechanic and nothing more.
What SE uses them for is as a way to give each class its "ultimate" ability which usually falls within that 2m window.
Sure the above class may not use a gauge, but it's ultimate would operate on a 2m CD either way and we end up with the same problem OP presented.

It may "sound" unique, but it'll have it's single target and aoe rotations all the same just like old SMN.