So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

[Jojoya]

This is the most cope and seethe coment you could write. Yes, you can isolate the primary tool, because you would need ALL OF EM to make the rest of the gear worth changing melds. You cant just change your normal gear melds just for oONE tool. Would that be worth the time invesment, when I was already crafting 510 HQ gear without any HQ mats? Heck no. So stop. You are just embrassing yourself.

Wow, we've met someone who isn't an Omnicrafter. I didn't realize there was anyone still left out there doing end game crafting without leveling all the DoH classes.

If someone makes a relic tool for use, they're going to end up making them all. It's not like it's difficult anymore than leveling up a crafting class is difficult. So yes, the gear ends up worth changing because you will be retaining the same stats on all the DoH classes outside of the minor increase from having Soul of the Crafter equipped.

For you it was not worth the time investment because you were only crafting 510. If I had been only crafting 510, I probably wouldn't have changed either. But I wasn't. I was grinding out Expert recipes for Castle in the Sky, and that made the change more than worth it.

If you had read what I posted, you would see that I'm sticking with my pentamelded Indagator for now. I don't see the current version of the relic tools as useful enough since I'm not currently doing Expert. If I was doing Expert, then I would have gotten them.

But I'm not going to rule out that the future versions of the relic tools won't be worth getting to replace my Indagator primaries. We haven't seen the stats on those tools or whether the bonus has changed. We haven't seen the 640 recipes yet. We haven't seen what new Expert recipes are getting added.

Please go cringe at yourself in a mirror for coming across as someone who only macro crafts and thinks that Exarchic was the pinnacle of crafting difficulty in Shadowbringers.

For expert crafts, these new tools are hands-down far better than pentamelded tools. On some other thread I did the math out. You need to use one touch ability on one good condition (at IQ stack of 2 or higher) for the crystalline tools to surpass the pentamelded tools. The lower control (presumably, there's control on a pentamelded Indagator tool) is offset by just 1 Good-condition Touch. Everything after that is gravy.

They'll become even better as the tool is upgraded further while the Indagator Tool stays the same.

I agree they're better for Expert.

My problem is I don't see the current Expert recipes as worth the effort. I'm happier waiting to see what other Expert recipes we get and what the final version looks like before I commit to getting them.

[SaltyDaddy]

Some bs from somebody who thinks experts were hard and you needed relic

Im trying to figure out, how did got across the thought Im not an omnicrafter. Some big brain thinking right there.

Experts was simple af. Even with normal crafted tool. The time spent for crafting relics that was much worse, I rather put into actually doing the restoration achievements.

I didnt read what tools you using, because I dont care and even if I did, you didnt write that to me. Not going to read everything in this thread. Also, you replied to me. How dare I dont know that you are sticking to crafted tools, even tho you are trying to prove me relics are sooo goood.

You are the only cringe here. Go try to prove that those few stats of Skysteel tools were so helpfull to somebody else. You dont even know what you replied to anymore. Are you kidding me, or is your just smoll crafter brain bothered by somebody, who dont share your opinion about Skysung tools being worth? Do you need headpats?

Also. Last relic step released so long after castle in the sky. Maybe you should spend more time grinding and less time posting on forums how people dissagree with you and calling them cringe for that. Thats cringe.

And if future version is better? Who cares. Who cares that a grindy tool will be better than crafted at basically end of expansion and we have no grindy experts. Only way they would be nice to have is, if they release new resplendent tools.

[dspguy]

I agree they're better for Expert.

My problem is I don't see the current Expert recipes as worth the effort. I'm happier waiting to see what other Expert recipes we get and what the final version looks like before I commit to getting them.

Today they are better for Expert. If these tools wind up like the ShB tools, the finished product will be 20 iLvl above. However, after pentamelds, they are about the same. The crafted tool lets you customize how much craft/control/cp you want. A player could get more control on the crafted tool than the skybuilders tool. However, the skybuilders tool does have better overall stats.

In any case, if a player isn't doing expert crafts, you don't need these tools. Not just because of the Good bonus on touches. Rather, it is because of the nature of how crafting works. You can't get to 110% HQ, so everything over 100% is a waste.

[VeyaAkemi]

In any case, if a player isn't doing expert crafts, you don't need these tools. Not just because of the Good bonus on touches. Rather, it is because of the nature of how crafting works. You can't get to 110% HQ, so everything over 100% is a waste.

I wouldn't say it's a waste, at least for macro mass crafting, it's not uncommon to get a poorly timed Excellent, such as on the Great Strides right before the Byregot's Blessing, and miss the mark on HQ, so there is an argument to make macros that go over 100% to have yourself a "buffer", granted, there is an opposite argument that a more reliable macro would take longer, or go above 15 actions, and thus it's better to eat the risk and deal with the misses, but if you can get that buffer without investing harder, it's something everyone doing mass crafting would welcome.

[Jojoya]

I wouldn't say it's a waste, at least for macro mass crafting, it's not uncommon to get a poorly timed Excellent, such as on the Great Strides right before the Byregot's Blessing, and miss the mark on HQ, so there is an argument to make macros that go over 100% to have yourself a "buffer", granted, there is an opposite argument that a more reliable macro would take longer, or go above 15 actions, and thus it's better to eat the risk and deal with the misses, but if you can get that buffer without investing harder, it's something everyone doing mass crafting would welcome.

Caimie either came up with the solution to this (or shared one that someone else had found) when macro crafting.

As long as you don't have 2 Touch steps in your finisher before Great Strides/Byregot, insert Tricks of the Trade before Great Strides. You end up getting this:

Innovation - any condition
Touch (optional) - any condition

Tricks of the Trade - if Good/Excellent, restore 20 CP. If Normal/Poor, error not available.

If Tricks was Good/Excellent, then Great Strides will be Normal/Poor.
If Tricks errored, then that same condition is now carried to Great Strides.

Byregot will now be Normal at worst and has a chance to be Good/Excellent if Great Strides was not Poor.

If your macro is cutting it very thin when getting to 100%, you could still be adversely affected by poor timing of a Excellent earlier in the craft without any offsetting Good but we no longer need to worry about Byregot's being wasted.

[VeyaAkemi]

Caimie either came up with the solution to this (or shared one that someone else had found) when macro crafting.

As long as you don't have 2 Touch steps in your finisher before Great Strides/Byregot, insert Tricks of the Trade before Great Strides. You end up getting this:

Innovation - any condition
Touch (optional) - any condition

Tricks of the Trade - if Good/Excellent, restore 20 CP. If Normal/Poor, error not available.

If Tricks was Good/Excellent, then Great Strides will be Normal/Poor.
If Tricks errored, then that same condition is now carried to Great Strides.

Byregot will now be Normal at worst and has a chance to be Good/Excellent if Great Strides was not Poor.

If your macro is cutting it very thin when getting to 100%, you could still be adversely affected by poor timing of a Excellent earlier in the craft without any offsetting Good but we no longer need to worry about Byregot's being wasted.

Oh that's damn clever, I hadn't thought of that and I will keep it in mind, and I guess cut down on my habit of overshooting quality by at least 20% to account for failure, I feel there is still a point about action limit, if you are trying to keep a macro within 15 actions(or even better 14 so you can add an /echo at the end), but it doesn't deny the effectiveness of the trick.