"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Chloe_Saunders]

At some point, though, the "what if [player] isn't comfortable with the content" mentality or justification intersects with the "everybody in the public duty should at least be comfortable with x/100 pace or intensity".

If tank has "tanxiety" and doesn't feel confident in pushing harder, well I mean sorry, but you've entered a public game setting where everyone else (most critically, healer) might feel they know better. It's not everyone else's job to perform at level 1 or 2 above because of your fears. It IS your job to hold aggro, though. Whether you did the pull or not. It'd be like ignoring adds in a boss fight (where it matters and you can't DPS down the boss anyways before it matters) because "well I didn't spawn them!", no, your role, your job, is to see the whole field and make sure nothing is attacking your squishy teammates, regardless of why that thing is attacking them.

If healer feels/knows, because of their toolkit at that level/the layout of the dungeon, that they can keep up with even W2W, then it becomes a 1v1 battle of desires between healer and tank. Add in the DPSs' vote and, hey, majority rules.

If you're that critically concerned about your ability to keep up, then you can communicate as much. Up until you bother to do so, I will assume you will play your role as a tank and take aggro, no matter why the mobs are attacking. If you die because healer can't keep up after all (due to their personal ability, level sync skill limitations, etc.), then you've learned you can't play at that accelerated pace. Okay, noted, reset and try again. If you DON'T die, then you learn, even if you're dragged kicking and screaming through the lesson, that you can take more aggro than you thought.

If you don't like 3 other players getting their own decision/input on how fast the dungeon is run, you can play Duty Support (where you by definition set the pace of AI) or make a PF where from the outset you make it clear YOU are the boss.

which is why i said low level, or when the tank is new to that dungeon it makes sense to go easy on them, personally i dont have much proplems on it since I tanked on wow which was way more of a nightmare than on final fantasy. However I do think there is reasonablity on both sides of the coin if its a person first time let them go as they feel needed to, to get use to the dungeons content (for arr-hw this is okay to be honest, as you can practice with npcs to get better) but in stormblood had to go in and learn it as a first timer with tank was a bit more harsh, I just reached shadowbringers yasterday day so I don't know about its dungeons. However I feel like both sides of the coin need to be understood.


Undead warrior in legion

[Miracle_Diva]

which is why i said low level, or when the tank is new to that dungeon it makes sense to go easy on them, personally i dont have much proplems on it since I tanked on wow which was way more of a nightmare than on final fantasy. However I do think there is reasonablity on both sides of the coin if its a person first time let them go as they feel needed to, to get use to the dungeons content (for arr-hw this is okay to be honest, as you can practice with npcs to get better) but in stormblood had to go in and learn it as a first timer with tank was a bit more harsh, I just reached shadowbringers yasterday day so I don't know about its dungeons. However I feel like both sides of the coin need to be understood.


Undead warrior in legion

1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss.
Literally every single dungeon.
Wall means you can't pull more before clearing all mobs before it. There's literally nothing else to dungeons. The only difference is one new or not very new mechanics to bosses. Which is pretty much irrelevant anyway. That's it.
You now know how 99% of all dungeons in Final Fantasy XIV work.

[KatiaRelanah]

which is why i said low level, or when the tank is new to that dungeon it makes sense to go easy on them, personally i dont have much proplems on it since I tanked on wow which was way more of a nightmare than on final fantasy. However I do think there is reasonablity on both sides of the coin if its a person first time let them go as they feel needed to, to get use to the dungeons content (for arr-hw this is okay to be honest, as you can practice with npcs to get better) but in stormblood had to go in and learn it as a first timer with tank was a bit more harsh, I just reached shadowbringers yasterday day so I don't know about its dungeons. However I feel like both sides of the coin need to be understood.


Undead warrior in legion

I understand "both sides" just fine. I'm simply saying that if we measure it as a "which side has more "selfish" people" scale, one only serves the desires of a single person: the other serves upwards of 3 others. In which case, only one of these scenarios is actually selfish, and it's not the one where only 1 member out of 4 is "injured".

To be sure, there's actually still more granularity possible (what if TANK is pulling hard, but HEALER is the one that can't keep up?) But even this is uneven, because Healer might lack their full skill set, making it a technical/numerical limitation, or lack the reaction time/awareness to keep up with tank's health plummeting out of nowhere.

But in most content, and ironically ESPECIALLY in the lower level content even though you use that as a "well people are still learning" defense, even if you never pop mits you can survive 2-3 trash pulls easily as a tank, given healer is marginally competent/aware and DPS are taking stuff down quickly enough. So Tank, in these cases, is slowing down everyone not out of legitimate limitations (as might be the case with healer) but because of their ignorance (in the literal sense, i.e. not being aware of something). They could stand still and not so much as attack, themselves, and if tank stance was enough to grab aggro itself and/or you didn't at least need to do SOME attacks to keep it up, they'd be fine. So the only issue then is psychological. And while it's a shame some people are so anxious about their abilities, no one in the public game instance is there to babysit you, as a person. They're there to complete the duty. However, your character, as a tank, IS supposed to babysit everyone else in-duty.

I'll say it again, isolated this time: tank's job is to have enemies attack them rather than other party members.

Pulling isn't in anyone's job description. Taking aggro is. Refusing to take aggro, regardless of why the bad guys are attacking, means you're not doing your job. Simple as.

[Rehayem]

If I'm tanking, then that means I'M tanking, if you want to tank then you can go ahead and tank, doesn't even matter to me if I get kicked since I have fast queue times. DPS need to stay in their place just like healers. If the healer wants to heal the dps then by all means go right on and get the next mob while i turn off my stance and dps more.

Dang, imagine being this insecure lol. So you admit to actively sabotaging runs for your own personal satisfaction?

[Puc]

Not satisfaction, but to send a message.

[Rehayem]

Not satisfaction, but to send a message.

A message that you're actively breaking Terms of Service and are screaming "please ban me"? It's called "obstruction of play" which is categorized as sabotage. Maybe you should either re-read the ToS or don't play a tank at all.

[Ravenblade1979]

You keep calling me toxic, but apparently it's okay for a tank to let someone die because they didn't get to pull first. Lmao.

nowhere did i say that wasn't toxic thinking on the tanks part. in fact i remember stating multiple times that it is. however just because player A is toxic don't mean player C can be. you just made a literal excuse as to why you could be toxic in this situation. are you like this often? like i must know how many times you had the toxic healer mentality.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Why is this thread revived again lmfao

[Ravenblade1979]

Dang, imagine being this insecure lol. So you admit to actively sabotaging runs for your own personal satisfaction?

it can be seen as insecur but i think Puc is saying. "hey this is my role, let me do it".

[Rehayem]

it can be seen as insecur but i think Puc is saying. "hey this is my role, let me do it".

And? That's still active sabotage if they refuse and get pissy about it by not tanking. It's not rocket science.