"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[KatiaRelanah]

I feel a bit eh on the topic, on one hand it can be really desrespectfull to go grap things all over the place while your tank is stressed out on small sizes at low levels, or maybe when I'm tanking Im graping a drink for two seconds and someone pulls. I don't say anything about it, and i do go grap the mops off them however in the back of my head I'm like I really should let them handle it if they want to so bad. That just how I feel, on both healer and tank playing through dungeons. Maybe im a horrible person, but i do think the you pull you tank mentality is called for sometimes. Sometimes its accidental or to not waste their dps that I'm okay with but sometimes its just..

At some point, though, the "what if [player] isn't comfortable with the content" mentality or justification intersects with the "everybody in the public duty should at least be comfortable with x/100 pace or intensity".

If tank has "tanxiety" and doesn't feel confident in pushing harder, well I mean sorry, but you've entered a public game setting where everyone else (most critically, healer) might feel they know better. It's not everyone else's job to not perform as optimally as they can/their kit allows (DPS having as many mobs as possible to make AoE attacks as efficient as possible; healer only healing to keep people alive and otherwise DPSing to accelerate the clear, etc.) because of your fears. It IS your job to hold aggro, though. Whether you did the pull or not. It'd be like ignoring adds in a boss fight (where it matters and you can't DPS down the boss anyways before it matters) because "well I didn't spawn them!", no, your role, your job, is to see the whole field and make sure nothing is attacking your squishy teammates, regardless of why that thing is attacking them.

If healer feels/knows, because of their toolkit at that level/the layout of the dungeon, that they can keep up with even W2W, then it becomes a 1v1 battle of desires between healer and tank. Add in the DPSs' vote and, hey, majority rules.

If you're that critically concerned about your ability to keep up, then you can communicate as much. Up until you bother to do so, I will assume you will play your role as a tank and take aggro, no matter why the mobs are attacking. If you die because healer can't keep up after all (due to their personal ability, level sync skill limitations, etc.), then you've learned you can't play at that accelerated pace. Okay, noted, reset and try again. If you DON'T die, then you learn, even if you're dragged kicking and screaming through the lesson, that you can take more aggro than you thought.

If you don't like 3 other players getting their own decision/input on how fast the dungeon is run, you can play Duty Support (where you by definition set the pace of AI) or make a PF where from the outset you make it clear YOU are the boss.

[Chloe_Saunders]

At some point, though, the "what if [player] isn't comfortable with the content" mentality or justification intersects with the "everybody in the public duty should at least be comfortable with x/100 pace or intensity".

If tank has "tanxiety" and doesn't feel confident in pushing harder, well I mean sorry, but you've entered a public game setting where everyone else (most critically, healer) might feel they know better. It's not everyone else's job to perform at level 1 or 2 above because of your fears. It IS your job to hold aggro, though. Whether you did the pull or not. It'd be like ignoring adds in a boss fight (where it matters and you can't DPS down the boss anyways before it matters) because "well I didn't spawn them!", no, your role, your job, is to see the whole field and make sure nothing is attacking your squishy teammates, regardless of why that thing is attacking them.

If healer feels/knows, because of their toolkit at that level/the layout of the dungeon, that they can keep up with even W2W, then it becomes a 1v1 battle of desires between healer and tank. Add in the DPSs' vote and, hey, majority rules.

If you're that critically concerned about your ability to keep up, then you can communicate as much. Up until you bother to do so, I will assume you will play your role as a tank and take aggro, no matter why the mobs are attacking. If you die because healer can't keep up after all (due to their personal ability, level sync skill limitations, etc.), then you've learned you can't play at that accelerated pace. Okay, noted, reset and try again. If you DON'T die, then you learn, even if you're dragged kicking and screaming through the lesson, that you can take more aggro than you thought.

If you don't like 3 other players getting their own decision/input on how fast the dungeon is run, you can play Duty Support (where you by definition set the pace of AI) or make a PF where from the outset you make it clear YOU are the boss.

which is why i said low level, or when the tank is new to that dungeon it makes sense to go easy on them, personally i dont have much proplems on it since I tanked on wow which was way more of a nightmare than on final fantasy. However I do think there is reasonablity on both sides of the coin if its a person first time let them go as they feel needed to, to get use to the dungeons content (for arr-hw this is okay to be honest, as you can practice with npcs to get better) but in stormblood had to go in and learn it as a first timer with tank was a bit more harsh, I just reached shadowbringers yasterday day so I don't know about its dungeons. However I feel like both sides of the coin need to be understood.


Undead warrior in legion

[Miracle_Diva]

which is why i said low level, or when the tank is new to that dungeon it makes sense to go easy on them, personally i dont have much proplems on it since I tanked on wow which was way more of a nightmare than on final fantasy. However I do think there is reasonablity on both sides of the coin if its a person first time let them go as they feel needed to, to get use to the dungeons content (for arr-hw this is okay to be honest, as you can practice with npcs to get better) but in stormblood had to go in and learn it as a first timer with tank was a bit more harsh, I just reached shadowbringers yasterday day so I don't know about its dungeons. However I feel like both sides of the coin need to be understood.


Undead warrior in legion

1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| 1 pack of mobs - 1 pack of mobs |WALL| Boss.
Literally every single dungeon.
Wall means you can't pull more before clearing all mobs before it. There's literally nothing else to dungeons. The only difference is one new or not very new mechanics to bosses. Which is pretty much irrelevant anyway. That's it.
You now know how 99% of all dungeons in Final Fantasy XIV work.