Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

[Rolder50]

WoW isn't that much difference, you have to play through specific expansions before you can join the current one.
But it's also a story-driven game, so it's expected you go through the expansions. If you dislike it, cough up the cash for a skip.

Not really true, for WoW. I think currently they drop you into tutorial island then into BfA for 1-60 on a fresh account, then 60-70 in current expac. Subsequent characters you can level in any expansion you want then go into current expansion at 60.

Leveling a new character takes basically no time at all. As an example, looking at an alt I started recently, my time played to max level was about 24 hours of /played, and I wasn't trying to go fast really.

[Sotaris]

Not really true, for WoW. I think currently they drop you into tutorial island then into BfA for 1-60 on a fresh account, then 60-70 in current expac. Subsequent characters you can level in any expansion you want then go into current expansion at 60.

¨

That's what I said? You can't as a new player jump into the latest expansion immediately, you have to go through previous expansions (BFA and Shadowlands now).

I never said anything about speed, my point again, was to explain FF isn't alone in gating new players from the latest expansion.

[Stormpeaks]

¨

That's what I said? You can't as a new player jump into the latest expansion immediately, you have to go through previous expansions (BFA and Shadowlands now).

I never said anything about speed, my point again, was to explain FF isn't alone in gating new players from the latest expansion.

It's not alone but the time is gigantically different, one takes no time at all, the other takes an extremely long time.

[R041]

¨

That's what I said? You can't as a new player jump into the latest expansion immediately, you have to go through previous expansions (BFA and Shadowlands now).

I never said anything about speed, my point again, was to explain FF isn't alone in gating new players from the latest expansion.

There's no strict order. You just need to be a minimum level before you get 'Current Expac'.

This is what I wish XIV would do. If they actually had the foresight to accomplish it instead of snowball itself into.. Whatever it is today. lol

[CStrife912]

There's no strict order. You just need to be a minimum level before you get 'Current Expac'.

This is what I wish XIV would do. If they actually had the foresight to accomplish it instead of snowball itself into.. Whatever it is today. lol

I mean I would be ok if they did like a 20 minute clip that plays at the beginning (is skippable for people who want to play etc) that goes through the what happened the expansion prior at least. You could combine that with the 'Unending codex' to bring players up to speed I feel.

[R041]

I mean I would be ok if they did like a 20 minute clip that plays at the beginning (is skippable for people who want to play etc) that goes through the what happened the expansion prior at least. You could combine that with the 'Unending codex' to bring players up to speed I feel.

Nothing will really work with the current setup they have, they had their opportunity in Stormblood but decided it was better to continue the snowball. They even had an example of bad practices by looking at WoW, and continued to just keep copying bad practices. Meanwhile WoW actually evolved past the linear 'Themepark' disadvantages. It's practically more of a Sandbox than most MMOs these days.

It's funny because in ARR-HW, they actually tried to be different, and slowly fell into the trap of conformity and homogenization.

This all tracks with some studies comparing NA vs JP development practices, where JP businesses prefer standardization and long term commitments over moving to match trends and experimenting. Is what it is I guess, just kinda thought Yoshi was gonna be better, but SE pushed them into the same trap.

Blizzard as a business is running with 'Live-Service' these days, and it shows. They're quick to fail and quick to react. The quicker you are to fail and react, the quicker you are to succeed and find what works.
SE is failing to really understand what 'Live-Service' means in today's world, so any failure they have they never react to - They just let it fester and hold everything hostage on a 2 year cycles. They might still succeed, and if it works for them then whatever.

[CStrife912]

Nothing will really work with the current setup they have, they had their opportunity in Stormblood but decided it was better to continue the snowball. They even had an example of bad practices by looking at WoW, and continued to just keep copying bad practices. Meanwhile WoW actually evolved past the linear 'Themepark' disadvantages. It's practically more of a Sandbox than most MMOs these days.

It's funny because in ARR-HW, they actually tried to be different, and slowly fell into the trap of conformity and homogenization.

This all tracks with some studies comparing NA vs JP development practices, where JP businesses prefer standardization and long term commitments over moving to match trends and experimenting. Is what it is I guess, just kinda thought Yoshi was gonna be better, but SE pushed them into the same trap.

Blizzard as a business is running with 'Live-Service' these days, and it shows. They're quick to fail and quick to react. The quicker you are to fail and react, the quicker you are to succeed and find what works.
SE is failing to really understand what 'Live-Service' means in today's world, so any failure they have they never react to - They just let it fester and hold everything hostage on a 2 year cycles. They might still succeed, and if it works for them then whatever.

I wonder if a lot of those live service adapting techniques wont apply to 14 due to their content pool of resources being allocated long in advance and not having the team size that blizzard has to be able to adapt to those reactionary approaches. I do agree they definitely are reactionary as devs but then a lot of that is they are lucky their playerbase took that much of a beating till it finally clicked that maybe their direction isnt correct. The thing is from HW-EW they have consistent growth...playerbase has increased expansion to expansion...its easy to say they fell into comfort and their loop....but the players haven't bitten back enough to change it and to be honest EW is the only time some cracks have formed and whether 7.0 reacts to that is unknown at this minute. If it doesn't change and say the playerbase keeps steady or growing then what does that tell them honestly? I know player numbers are lower in this lul but a lot come back for 6.4 onwards for the long term into 7.0 plus the hype of fanfests will entice people to come back etc so il be curious how the next year goes.

[R041]

I wonder if a lot of those live service adapting techniques wont apply to 14 due to their content pool of resources being allocated long in advance and not having the team size that blizzard has to be able to adapt to those reactionary approaches. I do agree they definitely are reactionary as devs but then a lot of that is they are lucky their playerbase took that much of a beating till it finally clicked that maybe their direction isnt correct. The thing is from HW-EW they have consistent growth...playerbase has increased expansion to expansion...its easy to say they fell into comfort and their loop....but the players haven't bitten back enough to change it and to be honest EW is the only time some cracks have formed and whether 7.0 reacts to that is unknown at this minute. If it doesn't change and say the playerbase keeps steady or growing then what does that tell them honestly? I know player numbers are lower in this lul but a lot come back for 6.4 onwards for the long term into 7.0 plus the hype of fanfests will entice people to come back etc so il be curious how the next year goes.

Yeah, I mean XIV could obviously do some things correctly. I think playbase will stay steady for a bit just because of natural online game progression, and not necessarily because XIV is getting better. People are concerned that their reaction time to anything is just way too slow, especially this year when we're getting a lot of 'Live-Service' M/MO games. So imagine all of these other games coming out that actually offer a living, breathing experience and somehow managing to keep it fresh every week, or month.

It kinda feels like XIV is only a few bad decisions away from losing players and losing momentum. They're almost too safe. Not very exciting. It's like putting your stocks in Microsoft. Slow and steady, but not actually fun. So when that dips you know it'll take a very long time to get back up to pace.

I'd rather have a game that pisses me off half the time but fixes them on a monthly basis, than a game that pisses me off and takes 2 years to MAYBE resolve itself. You know? lol

I also kinda find it sad that even while 6.0 was releasing, we were saying "Yeah, but 7.0 will fix all these problems just wait" .. Most people aren't going to wait? Things need to change now. It's like all the changes they're doing over the past few years are just trying to scrape the bottom of the Single Player barrel, like they already gave up on the Live-Service race.

It's also pretty strange how XIV is still making dungeons and zones the way they are - For a business that's all about saving money, they really clutch the design philosophy revolving around throwing it away. Like what's their goal? How does Yoshi advocate spending money on them? "Yeah, so.. We have these zones and we're spending X amount of money on them." .. "Oh, what do players do in them? Uuhh.. Marketing and zone music!"

[VelKallor]

They're quick to fail and quick to react