Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It's a coping mechanism
they keep saying "yeah you have incomplete data", because that way they can feel like they are right

-Sigh-
Ok buddy.

[VelKallor]

Do you think that the people who play on steam have significantly different taste and opinions when it comes to ff14 than those on consoles or on the standalone launcher?

My point was specifically on using it as a trend in terms of player retention. Taste and opinion are not a factor.

It's a coping mechanism for them, because they know there wont ever be any sort of number for subscriptions and how much the game retains players over patches and mini patches and expansions, so they keep saying "yeah you have incomplete data",

To which, by your own words, you have admitted you dont. Unless you actually HAVE said data? If so Id be EXTREMELY interested as to how and where you obtained said numbers..because as has been said, neither SE nor Blizzard makes this information public.

but they just wont accept that because it doesnt include consoles and standalone.

Correct.

It doesnt.

My point precisely. Which means it is incomplete. if it was complete..youd have those numbers.

But you dont.

A COMPLETE dataset would include all numbers from all login systems.

If you have far less than one third of the data, whatever conclusions you have will be wildly inaccurate. Thats what we call GIGO. I will be happy to discuss retention with you anytime..provided whatever conclusions you reach are predicated and verified by the raw data used to formulate said conclusion.

Lets put it another way, a patient has come in with blurred vision, headaches, a past history of fainting and migraines. No one with half a brain would even attempt as much as a provisional diagnosis without further tests and examinations..as those symptoms can and have included a multitude of possible disorders.

I submit, therefore, whatever conclusions or"trends" you believe you have identified lack any form of real provenance, and as such are susceptible to further analysis and criticism until such time as you have better and VERIFIABLE evidence on which to base those supposed 'trends".

Until then, I see it as pure conjecture , little else.

[Stormpeaks]

My point was specifically on using it as a trend in terms of player retention. Taste and opinion are not a factor.



To which, by your own words, you have admitted you dont. Unless you actually HAVE said data? If so Id be EXTREMELY interested as to how and where you obtained said numbers..because as has been said, neither SE nor Blizzard makes this information public.



Correct.

It doesnt.

My point precisely. Which means it is incomplete. if it was complete..youd have those numbers.

But you dont.

A COMPLETE dataset would include all numbers from all login systems.

If you have far less than one third of the data, whatever conclusions you have will be wildly inaccurate. Thats what we call GIGO. I will be happy to discuss retention with you anytime..provided whatever conclusions you reach are predicated and verified by the raw data used to formulate said conclusion.

Lets put it another way, a patient has come in with blurred vision, headaches, a past history of fainting and migraines. No one with half a brain would even attempt as much as a provisional diagnosis without further tests and examinations..as those symptoms can and have included a multitude of possible disorders.

I submit, therefore, whatever conclusions or"trends" you believe you have identified lack any form of real provenance, and as such are susceptible to further analysis and criticism until such time as you have better and VERIFIABLE evidence on which to base those supposed 'trends".

Until then, I see it as pure conjecture , little else.

Yes you are coping, nothing new there.

You dont need to write a wall of text to explain that.

Until you have subscription numbers per world per job per location, and they are down 90%, the game is thriving and is a "masterpiece"

Just get lost already lmao, I am done talking to people that cant see reason.

It is a factor because it decides if looking at steam charts is valid or not. If the people are largely the same and like/dislike for the same reasons then looking at steam numbers is valid. The cutoff point for statistics being good enough to not fall pray to statistical errors is at roughly 800 people for sample sizes. Way above that and you dont need to fear statistical errors skewing your results. What sample size wont account for is systematic error. If you want to invalidate using steam charts as sample you need to show that stormpeaks only refering to steam charts is commiting a systematic error. You would do that by showing that console and standalone players have significantly different interests/tastes.

That is fair tbh, if they did that, I would admit that they are right and that I was mistaken because if that was the case, then more individual numbers would have to be taken as the activities people are doing would be different, so the numbers from the sample wouldnt be right, and wouldnt give an actual trend.

[Saraide]

My point was specifically on using it as a trend in terms of player retention. Taste and opinion are not a factor.

It is a factor because it decides if looking at steam charts is valid or not. If the people are largely the same and like/dislike for the same reasons then looking at steam numbers is valid. The cutoff point for statistics being good enough to not fall pray to statistical errors is at roughly 800 people for sample sizes. Way above that and you dont need to fear statistical errors skewing your results. What sample size wont account for is systematic error. If you want to invalidate using steam charts as sample you need to show that stormpeaks only refering to steam charts is commiting a systematic error. You would do that by showing that console and standalone players have significantly different interests/tastes.

[Avoidy]

It would be cool if upon making an alt the game just recognized that you had a maxed out level 90 dude and let you skip the msq progression junk if you wanted to. But it doesn't even take 3 brain cells to see why that's not an option. Skips sell pretty well. And they wouldn't be able to sell skips if there weren't a powerful incentive to purchase them. Not even sure why people are dancing around this simple fact. Yoshi might be a real nice guy, but Square's a business and they only care about money and this is one way to get it. It's the same reason basic shit like eye color changes are locked behind a fanta.

[Rolder50]

You also have no baseline data from which to draw a comparative analysis...i.i.e player numbers for the last three years, broken down by region etc.

I'd like to point out that steam charts has data from the moment it was added to steam, so 9 years worth of trends and data.

[GTK0HLK]

I'd like to point out that steam charts has data from the moment it was added to steam, so 9 years worth of trends and data.

Which makes it big shame that you only get a picture of steam users like I.
and not of the whole playerbase, it would be good info otherwise.

You can make an Educated guess, but it won't be a approximate one at all sadly.

Thus why it's treated as inadequate cause if people gonna dismiss it in other topics, it's only fair and reasonable to do the same here.
Data Regardless, or not. Not only when it's convenient.

Which requires a sound reason for it's use.
<But since the data is only a fragment like the shards. it wouldn't be fair, for or against any topic.>
Exception only being when it's agreed to be fair/reasonable.

[Striker44]

Do you think that the people who play on steam have significantly different taste and opinions when it comes to ff14 than those on consoles or on the standalone launcher?

I'll jump in and say most likely. I look at my Steam friends who play FFXIV thru Steam, and I look at my FFXIV friends who play thru the SE launcher, and they have very different tastes. Now, this is just anecdotal evidence on my part, so it's not enough either to draw any definite conclusions, but it also makes sense logically that people playing thru Steam are more likely to be people whose "primary" types of games aren't MMO's. Your more traditional MMO-lover is probably a lot more likely to use the company's own launcher than Steam.

I also put little (read: none) value in Steam numbers because I've never witnessed any apparent correlation between trends there and what I'm actually, physically, literally seeing happen in game. FC activity doesn't drop when Steam numbers drop. Queue times don't go up (even for more obscure content like running a specific Nier raid) when Steam numbers drop. There's nothing I've ever seen change in-game when Steam numbers fluctuate that would suggest the portion of the playerbase represented by those Steam numbers is in any way meaningful or applicable to the playerbase at large.

[VelKallor]

Until you have subscription numbers per world per job per location, and they are down 90%, the game is thriving and is a "masterpiece"

Only I never said this. i said you have incomplete data and until such time as you have a better picture with proof and sources, whatever "trends' you see are a GIGO result. Conjecture. A guess. An estimate based on a faulty premise.

I am correct. You have a quarter of the picture and are throwing a hypothesis in with no real data to back it up.

Did I say I think the story is a masterpiece?

Yes.

is it my opinion?

Yes.

Did I admit it was only my opinion?

Yes.

Just get lost already lmao, I am done talking to people that cant see reason.

No

Coming from someone who hears hoofbeats outside a window and thinks its a zebra, pot, kettle, over.

There's nothing I've ever seen change in-game when Steam numbers fluctuate that would suggest the portion of the playerbase represented by those Steam numbers is in any way meaningful or applicable to the playerbase at large.

Agreed.

the people are largely the same and like/dislike for the same reasons then looking at steam numbers is valid

Thats the rub here, we have no data whatsoever to give any indication one way or the other. I confess I didnt look at your point correctly, I apologise for skimming over it..you are in fact correct.

Tastes and personal likes are indeed a factor.

[Stormpeaks]

The moment some dude starts saying that someone from the standalone version and someone from the steam version has different tastes, I am out lmao, this is a thing in general this is not tied to the version of the game you play, please stop trolling.

The level of coping for this game from you guys is just way too high, there will never be any sort of data because they refuse to give them, so yall keep rambling about this "yeah steam numbers are not good enough !!!" "they dont cover enough people", and the only reason why this comes up is because you know very well that they wont ever post these, so you can keep denying any sort of criticism that people have towards the game and act like everything is good and dandy and the game is in a perfectly good state and is not losing players.

I play on standalone, and what I do in the game is mostly housing, I dont do content, yet most people do content or go to venues or hell even do ERP, the point is that people do all sort of activities, this is not related to the platform you play on, seriously just stop already, people do multiple activities in this game and that's just how this game works, except if you can prove that X platform does content and X platform mostly goes to venue and X platform just does housing, what you say literally makes no sense and is just more coping. However if you have evidence that platforms have individual activities or tendencies, ACTUAL evidence, please provide them and I will gladly agree with you.