FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[Renathras]

Direct from YoshiP (wezll, his translator)
Live letter 66 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXLmXt5lZk
at around 17mn

Cool, appreciate that. I always like to see sources of quotes that people pass around to make sure they're saying what they seem to be saying and what context (if any) they're said under.

...

In terms of making changes that affect people, it's important to consider their feelings in the matter, even if you cannot poll them directly. It's why sweeping changes to policy and law are often only done after extensive studies (not always polls) that try to determine how people think about them and what the effects would be on the people who dislike them, even if that number isn't known or known precisely. Any viewpoints (via poll) used to suggest policy change must at least acknowledge these effects and what the perception would be by those people in doing it, and good studies would also indicate a confidence level as to how well they think they are representing the people as a whole.

Why is that when you post your opinion, it's objective, yet when someone else tries to counter, you try to dismiss it as subjective?

Oh, my apologize.

Let me correct that:

SCH and AST might not be better off in SB. SCH and AST might be better off in ShB and EW. They could be the best they've ever been right now.

Better?

Of all the things to call me on for being subjective, something you agree with and that an absolute majority of people in both Ty's survey and my own agree with seems to be an odd choice. But have your gotcha, I suppose? /shrug

What else...

"(which you seem to at least acknowledge)" does mean you acknowledged it. Yes. So...why are you trying to correct something that's right? I said "seem" because I didn't want to put words in your mouth if you did not. There was no hidden meaning to the word.

"Was that the one with the Fire island?" I think that was 4.2. 4.1 was then they re-released two prior Troll themed raids, the Vanilla WoW 20 man one in Stranglethorn Vale and the 10 man one near the Blood Elf starting area from Burning Crusade, as 5 man dungeons that were extra hard. Those were the two you had to do for the badges or whatever (Tomestones, let's call them Tomestones) for the 4.1 patch. They were beastly hard, and Cataclysm had the stupid "triage healing model" where they tuned encounters to hit like FFXIV but gave you healing tools like a level 15 WHM in power that all cost as much as Cure 3. Needless to say, it was bad. So many healers quit that patch, they finally toned it down in the following patches. By 4.3 or so (I think that was the one with the 3 Bronze Dragonflight dungeons), they had relaxed the healing and people's gear was high enough healers were able to actually work again, and those were SO much better. But in 4.1, healing in WoW was absolute hell.

"Agreed, the thing is" - honestly, I think oGCDs are way too powerful. I feel like healing should be far more GCD based. GCD heals should be the strong ones with oGCD heals being agumenting them. So skilled healers in good parties can shift more to the oGCD side, but people using GCD heals should be able to get through the healing requirements, and the shift should be from GCD to oGCD as encounter teams get better. Right now, it's not that way. The oGCDs are the first line heals rather than the last line or secondary help. Instead of "Use Asylum if Medica 2 isn't quite enough healing", it's "Use Medica 2 if Asylum isn't enough healing".

"Oh, I could have sworn you said" - "one of the". Those are important words. I do agree the kits need to be re-evaluated, but I suspect we think different parts of the kits are in need of reevaluation.

Oh, and I don't mind MP being a more needed/managed resource at all. If we toned down the oGCDs, that might actually be relevant.

So while there's definitely an argument to be made about WHM 'feeling' good in terms of access to powerful heals,

I think this is, in fact, what people mean.

Also AST robbing WHM of its kit, getting lower MP costs for the same potency abilities (the GCDs), and then getting better MP regeneration skills (and robbing WHM of Lucid Dreaming/Shroud of Saints back in SB as well when it became a Role action) is, in fact, something I've spoken out against before.

WHM has this feeling/history because it was compared to SCH (whose GCD heals have always been weaker in potency) and Cure 3 initially, and then ShB Thin Air. Though it should be noted WHM's Lily heals are 100% MP free to use and also have no cast time requirement. I should also note ShB Thin Air was ALSO robbed from us... <_<

Me attempting to Quote your comment ->

I'm hardly the only one with long posts. In fact, other people have me beat in length sometimes. I just tend to be replying to several people instead of making several smaller posts in a row. I don't see you complaining about anyone else doing it, so no, I don't think I will.

Also: Edit button, that's how. There's a kind of stupidly small character limit, but if you make a post less than that, then hit edit...apparently you can post as long as you want after that. I'm sure there's SOME upper limit, but I have no idea what it may be.

So I thought of an interesting question that could be fun to discuss. There's no need to get very specific with these ideas, but start by picking a job. What are 1-5 actions you want to see added to that job in the next expansion (regardless of whether or not you believe they're realistic), and what are 1-5 actions you expect to see of that same job?

I think this isn't the best way to frame the question - button bloat is real and many people would like to REMOVE (or combine) some actions. For example, I think most everyone thinks that Cure 1/Benefic 1 should be merged with Cure 2/Benefic 2, and probably Medica/Helios with Medica 2/Aspected Helios. Also, a lot of "actions added" might not be "ACTIONS added" so much as "EFFECTS added". For example, I think WHM should get the Protect effect added (same as PvP, though it comes from Seraph Strike; reduces damage taken by 10% for 10 seconds) to Plenary Indulgence. PI already puts a buff on party members (which is what the AOE heals proc off of), so having that buff also reduce damage taken would be an easy addition.

That said...sure, I'll do mine:

White Mage

What I want to see

- Protect effect added to Plenary Indulgence
- Thin Air reverted to ShB's duration based instead of charge based
- Another charge on Tetra (if we aren't removing/toning down oGCDs)
- The mythical Cure IV (and it should have the floaty animation that Holy/Glare do)
- A Lily spender either barrier or HoT. Something that can be used on someone (at least the Tank) even if everyone's at 100% without it being a waste.

What I expect

- An upgrade to Glare
- An upgrade to Dia (it was missed this expansion vs Glare and Holy and just had a potency boost)
- An upgrade to Holy
- Some new capstone - ARR was arguably Benediction, HW Tetra, SB Plenary, ShB Temperance, EW Lilybell. Maybe a Collective Unconscious-like bubble like Y'Shtola and Kan-E-Senna use?
- Some ability or upgrade of an ability around level 96, maybe Asylum finally gets a mitigation, who knows - call this the mystery bucket. If a new ability, might be another Lily spender (Regen maybe?)

[ForsakenRoe]

"Agreed, the thing is" - honestly, I think oGCDs are way too powerful. I feel like healing should be far more GCD based. GCD heals should be the strong ones with oGCD heals being agumenting them. So skilled healers in good parties can shift more to the oGCD side, but people using GCD heals should be able to get through the healing requirements, and the shift should be from GCD to oGCD as encounter teams get better. Right now, it's not that way. The oGCDs are the first line heals rather than the last line or secondary help. Instead of "Use Asylum if Medica 2 isn't quite enough healing", it's "Use Medica 2 if Asylum isn't enough healing".

So... Heavensward?

What I expect (and hope doesn't happen):
- An oGCD that can only be used under Riddle of Fire or Brotherhood.
- A 2 minute cooldown that just gives us both Nadis so Phantom Rush can be used in the opener.

I can see the latter being added as a side effect like 'press Anatman outside of combat and it instantly gives you 5 chakra and 2 nadi'. Spirit Bomb followup to brotherhood would be funny for the meme but it wouldn't feel right unless it took 4 episodes to charge and cast

edit: wait let me do one too

WHM: What I want:
- Dia rescaled to be 12s
- Water/Banish as a 15s CD GCD, slightly stronger than Glare equivalent, instantcast
- New gauge, 0-100, fills 1 per Glare, 1 per Dia tick (and 1 on cast), 5 per Banish (roughly 60 gauge per min in dummy scenario)
- New AOE GCD heal that costs 50 of this new gauge, which also turns GlareDiaBanish for one cast into...
- Quake (100p more than Glare), Tornado (30p more than Dia, 20p per tick more than Dia's tick, total boost of 110), Flood (100 more than Banish). These three boosts combined make the heal damage neutral
- 2 Charges on Assize/Tetra
- Rapture moved to 70
- Plenary moved to 76
- Protect as low level mit tool, upgrades to Plenary at 76 (keeps the mit effect so WHM has a 60s answer to AST's CU)
- Divine Seal back as 'Temperance without the mit', upgrades to Temp at 80
- Lily spender Stoneskin, applies a shield, at 70 it upgrades to Afflatus Bastion/Sanctuary (AOE version is learned at 70 too), shields are weaker than SGE/SCH GCD shields but damage neutral so there's maybe interesting 'can we get away with it' moments
- Cleric Stance (or Seraph Strike) as a 60s CD, 10s duration selfbuff, as a 'Trick attack' to POM's 'Mug'. Lean into WHM being the BLM of healers, it has no utility but it pumps
- Merge Cure and Cure2 (MP cost reduced to Cure1's level), merge Medica and Medica2 (just add the Med2 HOT to Med1's base heal)
- If there's any room left for another thing before the 'i play healer to heal' complaints get too much to handle, return Aero 3 as a 24s DOT (or Phlegma-like 24s CD if you really have to), generate 10 gauge over it's duration/at once if it's a burst damage

What I expect:
- Probably the AOE heal, without the gauge cost, or the Quake etc side effect, just a standalone GCD aoe heal
- Regen 2

And for SGE, what I want: this, I am not writing it all again

what I expect:

- Holos 2