Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

[Divinemights]

Machinest?
Sorry to hear that your datacenter do not have a good caller calling which target to focus fire
It is beyond me if someone actually trying to focus Samurai in 72 men mode when there are other easier and higher priority target
For example, the warrior that Primal Render into enemy group (forgot they no longer has inner rage) should be focus fire before even bother with a Samurai

It is also pretty simple and safe to assume to every Samurai you saw potentially is LB ready after initial 2 mins.
It is also so veryeasy to bait Samurai's Chiten and focus fire him after Chiten duration is over
At 72 men environment, do you really think Samurai has higher threat without LB?

[Valence]

Machinest?

No. MCH rarely has a problem with samurais even though it still leaves you without bioblater options when a single SAM is in the blob you want to AoE pressure. Some jobs however, are non functional without AoE or cleaves.

Sorry to hear that your datacenter do not have a good caller calling which target to focus fire
It is beyond me if someone actually trying to focus Samurai in 72 men mode when there are other easier and higher priority target
For example, the warrior that Primal Render into enemy group (forgot they no longer has inner rage) should be focus fire before even bother with a Samurai

That's not the problem and you know it.

It is also pretty simple and safe to assume to every Samurai you saw potentially is LB ready after initial 2 mins.
It is also so veryeasy to bait Samurai's Chiten and focus fire him after Chiten duration is over
At 72 men environment, do you really think Samurai has higher threat without LB?

Your argument essentially assumes that there is barely one or two samurais to keep track of (without even talking how a single one present in an area can completely shut down any AoE pressure if people want to follow your advice).

What do you do when there is 10, 15 of them running amok? You're bound to hit one at some point, with certain jobs.

It's easy to bait ONE samurai with a shield job, but this is besides the point, once more.

[Divinemights]

Your argument essentially assumes that there is barely one or two samurais to keep track of (without even talking how a single one present in an area can completely shut down any AoE pressure if people want to follow your advice).
What do you do when there is 10, 15 of them running amok? You're bound to hit one at some point, with certain jobs.
It's easy to bait ONE samurai with a shield job, but this is besides the point, once more.

Your counter argument is giving me is typical artificial extreme situation commonly seem in debating
It is true between 4.1 to 4.5, over stacking of Mahinest resulting the extinction of Melee but it triggered the 50% damage reduction to Melee/Tank
This does not apply here since there is no clear fact that people over stacking Samurai and SE has static showing each job participation is even with current 6.1 PvP.

Beside, the discussion about DNC few posts earlier can easily counter this extreme example.
DRK used salted earth on your 15 Samurais (Samurais can't used Chiten during draw in animation)
WHM used Afflatus Purgation to accompany with Salted and Darkness
DNC come in with Contradance follow with DRGs and SMNs aoe bomb.
What can your 15 Samurai is going to do when trapped with animation lock?
DO you really think they have that much time to reach when entire DRK strategy only takes 5s to process?

Even for me, the only counter i can think of is to have WHM/BRD CC DRK to prevent Salted and Darkness so trapped melee can get out
You are welcome to share your counter strategy

[Elfidan]

Your counter argument is giving me is typical artificial extreme situation commonly seem in debating

DRK used salted earth on your 15 Samurais (Samurais can't used Chiten during draw in animation)
WHM used Afflatus Purgation to accompany with Salted and Darkness
DNC come in with Contradance follow with DRGs and SMNs aoe bomb.
What can your 15 Samurai is going to do when trapped with animation lock?
DO you really think they have that much time to reach when entire DRK strategy only takes 5s to process?

This is the funniest reply I have ever read. "typical artificial extreme situation" then types this mess out.

[Valence]

Your counter argument is giving me is typical artificial extreme situation commonly seem in debating

cf the reply from Efidan above. That's rich.

Also I don't know how it's on your datacenter, but in the FLs I play there is always a good amount of Samurai running all around, which is definitely above a handful, which means you always at least have one in the enemy blob with LB ready. Hardly an extreme situation, so let's drop the bad faith for a moment will you?

Beside, the discussion about DNC few posts earlier can easily counter this extreme example.
DRK used salted earth on your 15 Samurais (Samurais can't used Chiten during draw in animation)
WHM used Afflatus Purgation to accompany with Salted and Darkness
DNC come in with Contradance follow with DRGs and SMNs aoe bomb.
What can your 15 Samurai is going to do when trapped with animation lock?
DO you really think they have that much time to reach when entire DRK strategy only takes 5s to process?

Even for me, the only counter i can think of is to have WHM/BRD CC DRK to prevent Salted and Darkness so trapped melee can get out
You are welcome to share your counter strategy

Why are you moving the goalposts with this red herring? I never argued anything about DRK, WHM, DNC, DRG, SMN combinations... Go back to the point.

[Divinemights]

cf the reply from Efidan above. That's rich.
Also I don't know how it's on your datacenter, but in the FLs I play there is always a good amount of Samurai running all around, which is definitely above a handful, which means you always at least have one in the enemy blob with LB ready. Hardly an extreme situation, so let's drop the bad faith for a moment will you?
Why are you moving the goalposts with this red herring? I never argued anything about DRK, WHM, DNC, DRG, SMN combinations... Go back to the point.

What goalpost?
You gave me an over exaggerated example and I simply told you current DUO DRK counter that extreme exmaple of 15 Samurais
You also seen to selectively ignore the fact that currently it is DUO DRKs dominating the Frontline.
However, you did best illustrate why there is no point to discuss further as no matter how solid answer it is, you will always come and challenge with "what if...."

TLDR, my main this expanison for Frontline is MNK and I play Samurai recently solely for this debate
I played about 20 Onsal Hakir on Primal as Samurai today and I can ensure you the people I took down with limit break are those tunnel vision players who chase down enemy.
Samurai Limit Break don't work on veterans at all.
Experience players will never understand why you are complaining, and we are sorry you feel that way.

[Kathleen_]

What goalpost?
You gave me an over exaggerated example and I simply told you current DUO DRK counter that extreme exmaple of 15 Samurais
You also seen to selectively ignore the fact that currently it is DUO DRKs dominating the Frontline.
However, you did best illustrate why there is no point to discuss further as no matter how solid answer it is, you will always come and challenge with "what if...."

TLDR, my main this expanison for Frontline is MNK and I play Samurai recently solely for this debate
I played about 20 Onsal Hakir on Primal as Samurai today and I can ensure you the people I took down with limit break are those tunnel vision players who chase down enemy.
Samurai Limit Break don't work on veterans at all.
Experience players will never understand why you are complaining, and we are sorry you feel that way.

I guarantee you that having to deal with 10-15 SAMs, especially on Secure, is not an extreme but the norm on JP DCs. DRKs are also extremely easy to grief as SAM if you know that they're pushing without LB.

[Knot_D]

I guarantee you that having to deal with 10-15 SAMs, especially on Secure, is not an extreme but the norm on JP DCs. DRKs are also extremely easy to grief as SAM if you know that they're pushing without LB.

Literally it's Japanese Shogun Wars on JP Secure. Tons of SAM and NIN and mind you, the playstyle is different than NA's style that's just looping each posts... We do 8v8 there.