Please more housing wards soon. And no more FC/Private Hybrid.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

How is this a problem? 56 people managed to get the gil to bid, and took the time to do it. You're telling me is a flaw in the system that the house went to a group where all 56 of them can now enjoy it? You would rather give an equal chance to an FC that can only make 1 bid and only has 4 members?

If you don't see the problem here then you might as well be amongst those 56 people who have bidded on that plot.

[PredatoryCatgirl]

If you don't see the problem here then you might as well be amongst those 56 people who have bidded on that plot.

Okay, cool. I will be. Thanks for demonstrating that you have the debate skills of a wet paper towel.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

Okay, cool. I will be. Thanks for demonstrating that you have the debate skills of a wet paper towel.

I mean, my inner self-preservation instinct notified me that it's unwise to waste your energy and time to explain anything to someone who thinks that bidding with 56 people and virtually reducing the chances to zero for everyone else that wants to get the house is okay.

But sure, if you're so keen on debating, let's talk about it. Why don't we make it a requirement for FCs then that they need to have at least 50 members in order to bid on a house? Hmm, how would that sound? Inherently stupid, aye? Just as stupid as what you're trying to convey.

[PredatoryCatgirl]

Why don't we make it a requirement for FCs then that they need to have at least 50 members in order to bid on a house? Hmm, how would that sound? inherently stupid, aye? Just as stupid as what you're trying to convey.

That is not the same thing. "You have zero chance unless you have 50 members" is not the same as "you have less of a chance with one member than someone who has fifty". What you're suggesting now would completely remove any chance at all for a small or solo FC to bid, regardless of any other FC's interest in the house, rather than making their chance very small in the case of a large FC wanting the house.

Do you honestly think those are the same things, or are you deliberately making an exaggerated bad faith argument?

[Stormpeaks]

That is not the same thing. "You have zero chance unless you have 50 members" is not the same as "you have less of a chance with one member than someone who has fifty". What you're suggesting now would completely remove any chance at all for a small or solo FC to bid, regardless of any other FC's interest in the house, rather than making their chance very small in the case of a large FC wanting the house.

Do you honestly think those are the same things, or are you deliberately making an exaggerated bad faith argument?

So, what chance would someone bidding with a 10 people FC for example, have agaisnt another bigger one with 56 bids, is that fair ? Do they not deserve to bid on the large fairly and have a decent chance to get it because they're a smaller FC ?

[Sindele]

So, what chance would someone bidding with a 10 people FC for example, have agaisnt another bigger one with 56 bids, is that fair ? Do they not deserve to bid on the large fairly and have a decent chance to get it because they're a smaller FC ?

A slightly better than 15% chance if they used all 10 bids. What about that seems unfair?

E: And we should remember the realistic context, too: we're in a world where FC smalls frequently go for single bids on all but the single most demanding server in the world (and even there sometimes). Nobody's throwing in a 56-bid saturation attack on every single small that exists.

[Stormpeaks]

A slightly better than 15% chance if they used all 10 bids. What about that seems unfair?

That they have quite literally no chance to get it because they are a smaller FC, which is why it should be 1 bid per FC, that is equal and fair. The amount of members shouldnt change anything about the bidding process.

[PredatoryCatgirl]

So, what chance would someone bidding with a 10 people FC for example, have agaisnt another bigger one with 56 bids, is that fair ? Do they not deserve to bid on the large fairly and have a decent chance to get it because they're a smaller FC ?

They do deserve fairness. And 56 people having a larger chance than 10 people is fair, because the larger chance should go to the larger group. This ensures that the largest chance of making more people satisfied with the outcome is achieved.

Or maybe we can both admit that "fair" is a subjective term and stop using it in an attempt to guilt people into thinking that your way of thinking is the only correct one.

[Starien]

So, what chance would someone bidding with a 10 people FC for example, have agaisnt another bigger one with 56 bids, is that fair ? Do they not deserve to bid on the large fairly and have a decent chance to get it because they're a smaller FC ?

In my mind, it is fair that an FC may choose where to place a bid. It is also fair that the lottery may choose a winner from among anyone in the bidding pool including those of a smaller FC. The odds may be stacked but will not be impossible.

It is also fair that there is no limit to the number of cycles an FC may bid to relocate in case one attempt didn't pan out. Larges are not so incredibly rare; they are opening more frequently due to auto-demolition now as well as relocation.

It also feels fair to me that if an FC wants to zero in on a plot in a prime location, they should expect to be up against a ton of competition and they have every right to try to stack the odds in their favor the best they can. Effort produces a more favorable chance. All of this seems reasonable to me.

[Antoine_Lenheim]

That is not the same thing.

This is what you're saying though. In your book, a 56 man FC bidding with all their members is okay, which reduces the chances of a smaller FC to get a house to zero, unless that FC is packing four leaf clovers in all places imaginable and unimaginable. Sure, you do not meet the hoard bidders on your each bid but even 1 man biddind vs 3 men from the opposite FC, it's already reducing your chances three times lower. Which is not fair. Or equal, since some people here decided to debate on terminology and which word means what.

I'd be absolutely alright with 100, 200, 300 bids on one plot, if I knew it's actually 300 different people who have bidded on it. And I have 1 out of 300 chance, fair and square. But as it is now, out of 300 bids its one FC with 50 bids, another FC with another 50 bids, etc etc etc. I'm exagerrating, of course, but you do get the point, I hope.