Inevitable Job Simplifications?

[Renathras]

I'm just remembering you that you forgot how old SMN worked and just kept saying nonsense in comparison with how it actually behaved!

Just stop. You're being intentionally antagonistic. I described how it played BECAUSE I PLAYED IT. It wasn't "reading a guide" (though I DID read guides for it - at the time - BECAUSE I PLAYED IT). You're just being needlessly antagonistic.

And it's you that aren't reading all my posts if you say that. The job is braindead and need more flexibility and things to actually decide during fights, not that fake decision making legos. The execution is terrible but has the tools to be good if changes to the rotation are made and the visual are cool. I already said that, but clearly you just gloss over what want to read and discard the rest. Still have the gall to talk about intellectual laziness...

What did I say in that quote that is wrong?

You think the Job is braindead? That's true.

You dislike the Job? Also true.

You've resisted saying good things about it? Also true. In this thread, what was the last post you said good things about New SMN? Before page 20? Before page 15? Moreover, you make any praise contingent on changes, which isn't praising the extant system.

I've gone back to page 15 so far. I can't find one place you said "It has the tools to be good" and "the visuals are cool", even if we ignore you qualified those with "if it's changed". So even if we count that, you haven't said it in the last 10ish pages of thread. I could probably go back further and also not find it.

I couldn't gloss over what you didn't say.

You're trying desperately for some kind of "gotcha" at this point and failing. Badly.

Maybe you should stop trying to insult me and address actual arguments instead...ad hominem is a logical fallacy for a reason.

.

EDIT: I've gone all the way back to page 1. At no point did you say good things (or even arguably good things) about New SMN as far as I can find.

Maybe you shouldn't lie and make false accusations against people? It would appear my "gall" is well placed.

(As it happens, I read everything I reply to - the entire posts - and am rather Entish about replies. If I'm going to reply to something, I'm going to give it a fully reply as it deserves, and that means I'm also going to read all of it. You MAY accuse me of misunderstanding from time to time, but you can't accuse me of cherry picking from your posts - which you did - and/or ignoring parts:

"gloss over what want to read and discard the rest" is an absolute lie.)

[Dahlinea]

I've gone back to page 15 so far. I can't find one place you said "It has the tools to be good" and "the visuals are cool", even if we ignore you qualified those with "if it's changed". So even if we count that, you haven't said it in the last 10ish pages of thread. I could probably go back further and also not find it.

Go to page 20 and say this again. But don't get me wrong, I like the aethetics and ideas but absolutely condemn the current execution of the job and will keep complaining about it as long as it stays in that sorry braindead state.

[Renathras]

Go to page 20 and say this again. But don't get me wrong, I like the aethetics and ideas but absolutely condemn the current execution of the job and will keep complaining about it as long as it stays in that sorry braindead state.

Only post by you on page 20:

And you're failing to understand that no Colourful Mage the devs introduce will stop people that play SMN to complain about its "no effort" state (because "braindead" is offensive, apparently, despite being the right word for the job right now).
People been justifiably complaining about this trend of the devs in over simplifying job core mechanics for some time now. Now we get an extreme case of a job being reworked and getting all its verticality removed in the process and FOR ABSOLUTLY NO REASON. This is no accessibility at all, for those who want to claim it as such, and people already gave examples of jobs that feature a better a idea of accessibility, like DNC or RDM. The job needed fixes to pet actions' responsiveness and an eased opener, which nearly every old SMN player agreed about it.
The devs created the right tools, the good animations and you can see traces of feedbacks the players gave for the job in the past, but the execution of the job they put out is terrible, the baseline being is your near best approach to the job, leaving no room for players even trying to extract more of it besides one or two tweaks.

You call our arguments subjective but all you did up until now is using your biased conceptions of what the jobs should be as something objective. You're being subjective as hell for the most part of this thread as well.
Also player count doesn't mean anything. If it did, BLM would've been reworked to be a braindead job ages ago.




I don't know man. You said I was like a cultist or something back there.

That it?

"right tools, the good animations" said in a single post several pages ago that was couched in "but the execution of the job they put out is terrible, the baseline being is your near best approach to the job, leaving no room for players even trying to extract more of it besides one or two tweaks"?

Forgive me if I missed, in between you saying it was awful and you saying it was awful, that you liked the animations and...I don't know what you mean by tools here since you can't mean the mechanics or rotation (as you've said both are terrible).

.

Yeah, I don't think you can accuse me of "gloss over what want to read and discard the rest" when you have exactly 4 words (with a "the" in the middle) in 24 pages of posts that you think I "discarded", which were in the middle of you saying it was bad and you saying again it was bad.

[Dahlinea]

Yeah, I don't think you can accuse me of "gloss over what want to read and discard the rest" when you have exactly 4 words (with a "the" in the middle) in 24 pages of posts that you think I "discarded", which were in the middle of you saying it was bad and you saying again it was bad.

You like to be so pedantic about words and meaning and now is discarding it as if I said nothing. It's there, I said it, I didn't say just bad things about this new SMN like you claimed it. Deal with it.