SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[4clubbedace]

14 has good plot for an mmo, bad for a mainline FF. Hope this helps.

Give me bozja 2 tho lol.

[Melorie]

This is what you said, man: "It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging."

And what I'm saying is, that's an opinion because there are people here, even in this thread, that like that gameplay. I'm not even defending it. I'm just saying some people like it, some people don't. You are in the camp that doesn't like it. And that's okay.

It's as simple as that.

That gameplay barely exists. I feel like this is the point you're missing. FFXIV is the only MMO where everyone I know that started playing is like "wait. when do I start to hit any kind of mob?". A lot of people actually ride through it or accept this aspect, even enjoy it... But the fact that the gameplay is pretty much non-existant is still a fact. You can enjoy this but that doesn't change it.

[R041]

This is what you said, man: "It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging."

And what I'm saying is, that's an opinion because there are people here, even in this thread, that like that gameplay. I'm not even defending it. I'm just saying some people like it, some people don't. You are in the camp that doesn't like it. And that's okay.

It's as simple as that.

I never said anything about specific peoples liking, or disliking it more. I said it had less overall engaging opportunities, and less coop potential. XIV could do with more opportunities.

If those people like less opportunities and want to read their story, then that's fine. If the world today all of a sudden preferred reading books over playing games, I wouldn't say it's any worse - But I would say it's less engaging, and provides less opportunity as form of media.

[Lium]

A lot of people actually ride through it or accept this aspect, even enjoy it...

Which is the point. And the only point I was making. No other points have been missed.

[Melorie]

Which is the point. And the only point I was making. No other points have been missed.

A fact has nothing to do with enjoying it or not. It is still a fact. You barely PLAY as you would in other MMOs when you do the story of the game. In Endwalker I can count on my fingers where I had to kill a mob. It doesn't matter if I like this or not, there's no gameplay. You keep bringing how there's people that enjoy this but this is not the point of the discussion at all.

[Lium]

And this is a very reasonable point that I agree with. What I took issue with was "the dullness between them still isn't engaging." That part is an opinion because there are in fact, people that do find it engaging, even if you don't. We can agree about less opportunities for coop, etc. We don't agree on whether or not that's engaging. As that's a matter of preferences.

[ReynTime]

Video game content that provides the same experience whether you're taking a hold of the controller or whether you're watching it on youtube without paying a cent for the product is just plain bad video game content.

[R041]

And this is a very reasonable point that I agree with. What I took issue with was "the dullness between them still isn't engaging." That part is an opinion because there are in fact, people that do find it engaging, even if you don't. We can agree about less opportunities for coop, etc. We don't agree on whether or not that's engaging. As that's a matter of preferences.

It's fine that people in general find things I find boring, as engaging. That's not the discussion.

XIV provides less overall engaging opportunities for gameplay within it's MSQ, that's all there is to this. That is a fact. Dialog is not gameplay, it's reading. It may be engaging as a story. But not as gameplay.

[drtasteyummy]

I think if there's one thing I learned from Final Fantasy as an MMO, it's how important freedom is. Personally, I don't feel that the story that hides various gameplay elements for new players has been very well encapsulated. The issue doesn't really present itself as much unless you're a new player, and it only gets worse with every expansion. In a perfect world, the game would give you the freedom to choose between leveling through dungeons, leveling in the open world with action driven mini stories of their own, or leveling through the text driven main story. I just think it was bad design to put a gun to every player's head and tell them you're going to like it that way or you can leave.

[Lium]

It's fine that people in general find things I find boring, as engaging. That's not the discussion.

XIV provides less overall engaging opportunities for gameplay within it's MSQ, that's all there is to this. That is a fact. Dialog is not gameplay, it's reading. It may be engaging as a story. But not as gameplay.

And that'd be fine if that's the way you phrased it initially. Here is what you said that started this whole back and forth which was quite complimentary towards WoW.

"Some of us never actually enjoyed the way XIV has forced and designed MSQ. We assumed that maybe after 10 years they'd at least put a little more effort into the engagement and ways the MSQ is told. But nope, it's been the same boring slog."

You mixed some facts about the way FFXIV's MSQ is set up with your own opinion. So for you and everyone agreeing with you, that's what I was responding to.

Hope that clears it up. Have a nice day!