SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[R041]

...

It seems like you just read opinion pieces and you haven't actually played BfA, Shadowlands, or Dragonflight.

It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging.

XIV forces you to play the Visual Novel for 300 hours and players still can't figure out their class. Maybe because the time between actually playing and reading is typically 5-10 hour stretches.

WoW gives you a lot of time to figure out your class, it actually lets you PLAY your class through MSQ unlike XIV. It also has proper class trials and tutorials if you're into that.

It mostly sounds like you're just using negative talking points most FFXIV players make against WoW without actually playing it. I know, because I used those same talking points before - Then I actually played BfA through Dragonflight and had to put my foot in my mouth with how wrong I was.

Also, I enjoy a lot of things in FFXIV more than I do WoW. But that doesn't mean I can say everything is better. I will gladly admit that the MSQ mechanics are dull and lifeless outside of some fun fights we get to do. I wish it were expanded, I wish we could coop more, I wish it had more world and gameplay engagement overall. But unfortunately both the dungeons and maps are used as basic set-pieces for talking heads.

[drtasteyummy]

...

It's hard to argue against that because I absolutely feel the same way. But in their defense, it was always the way they told the story. Whether you like it or not is purely up to that person, and some really do like it the way it is now. It's like saying, "I hate that I have to read the item description in Elden Ring. That's such a bad way of telling the story that would otherwise be so interesting. I hope the next DLC will fix that." It's just like no, not going to happen.

[CStrife912]

........

Sadly it isn't a fact it has the least engaging gameplay for an msq...that's impossible to say without a survey across every MMO player group so it just falls under opinion. I know what you're saying but it is at the end of the day your opinion. I have played visual novels and I don't really consider it the same, I get some aspects are like that but its Final Fantasy every entry has people standing around and talking yet they are all RPGs unless you're saying the franchise as a whole is a visual novel it is not.

You do play your class in the game, sometimes the solo duties require you to use your toolkit completely sometimes less so but you can't 1 button your way to victory. Also if we go from the beginning the classes are told behind their own story where they go through each ability each sort of quest you get. I think you misunderstand we are not blind defending the game and I could list a ton of things I have issue with but what we are talking about here isn't really a core problem. It has always been stated the game is an RPG first MMO second. Or in some cases its story first gameplay second and it must have worked musn't it if people are still here or more players coming in.

In regards to the coop aspect yes it would be nice if my mates could share my quest however I believe this is for one sort of 'copout' thing. That being in WoW your character really isn't that important to the grand scheme of things. You just help when an issue arises and you're constantly thrown aside and no one remembers your deeds. FF14 you are the main character for better or worse (the constant OH ITS THE WOL WE ARE SAVED does get annoying) but it wouldn't make sense in that your the main character environment to have you and your mate coop a story quest. However this doesn't mean they couldn't trial this with the dailies and weekly quests as a testing ground to get more people doing stuff together.
Also sadly to its own detriment it ain't Final Fantasy unless we kill some form of *insert god here*

[R041]

I get some aspects are like that but its Final Fantasy every entry has people standing around and talking yet they are all RPGs unless you're saying the franchise as a whole is a visual novel it is not.

Also sadly to its own detriment it ain't Final Fantasy unless we kill some form of *insert god here*

Yeah, but somehow XIV managed to even surpass that with how insane it got. It feels weird, and I'm a little sick to my stomach. It's almost worse than DBZ Super.

Also, every FF game has a much more engaging MSQ. If a Single Player Mainline released tomorrow with just the MSQ in the same formula as it is for FFXIV. It'd be ripped to shreds, it would have the absolute worst rating of all FF games.

You'd have to have absolutely amazing combat in the dungeon sections for it to survive.

[Lium]

It seems like you just read opinion pieces and you haven't actually played BfA, Shadowlands, or Dragonflight.

It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging.

XIV forces you to play the Visual Novel for 300 hours and players still can't figure out their class. Maybe because the time between actually playing and reading is typically 5-10 hour stretches.

WoW gives you a lot of time to figure out your class, it actually lets you PLAY your class through MSQ unlike XIV. It also has proper class trials and tutorials if you're into that.

It mostly sounds like you're just using negative talking points most FFXIV players make against WoW without actually playing it. I know, because I used those same talking points before - Then I actually played BfA through Dragonflight and had to put my foot in my mouth with how wrong I was.

Also, I enjoy a lot of things in FFXIV more than I do WoW. But that doesn't mean I can say everything is better. I will gladly admit that the MSQ mechanics are dull and lifeless outside of some fun fights we get to do. I wish it were expanded, I wish we could coop more, I wish it had more world and gameplay engagement overall. But unfortunately both the dungeons and maps are used as basic set-pieces for talking heads.

You keep using this word "fact" but I don't think it means what you think it means.

What you've stated is an opinion. A preference to the way WoW does things. And there's nothing wrong with that. Just that it's your opinion.

And no, I haven't played BFA, Shadowlands or Dragonflight, but like I previously stated, I played from 2005 till Legion (which was an expansion I enjoyed.) I've also tried some free weekends that Blizzard offered when they were trying to get former players back.

So, unless the game has drastically and dramatically changed since the free weekend I tried around the end of last year, the leveling process is about as vapid an experience as I've personally encountered in an MMO. And it is a primary complaint in the WoW community. I also find it interesting that you keep mentioning BFA and SL as these are universally acknowledged to be two of the worst expansions in WoW's history. Dragonflight appears to be turning things around for them and seems to be doing well. If it's as radically different from the hollow and lightning fast leveling experience I had then I might give it a try.

[R041]

You keep using this word "fact" but I don't think it means what you think it means.

I don't know how else I can present the information to you. The fact is that XIV provides LESS overall opportunity within MSQ for the player to feel engaged with the gameplay, friends, and world. It doesn't mean the story is better or worse. It's just that it provides more opportunity and systems overall. It's a pretty simple idea I think?

An apartment can feel more cozy, but a mansion is factually better.. Does.. That make more sense? Maybe there's a better analogy to be had here.

I really wish people would learn to actually separate a good story TEXT to a good story gameplay. I can see how FFXIV lacks on the second part, and how it's bound to be difficult for new players to actually feel immersed in the game, especially if they have other MMO experience. That is something I don't honestly see them ever changing though. It is what is is.

Exactly! Like I can't deny that the Trials are phenomenal. In an ideal design, I'd have the story engagement of open world WoW with the story impact and Trials/Boss Mechanics of FFXIV.

[Lium]

I don't know how else I can present the information to you. The fact is that XIV provides LESS overall opportunity within MSQ for the player to feel engaged with the gameplay, friends, and world. It doesn't mean the story is better or worse. It's just that it provides more opportunity and systems overall. It's a pretty simple idea I think?

An apartment can feel more cozy, but a mansion is factually better.. Does.. That make more sense? Maybe there's a better analogy to be had here.

This is what you said, man: "It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging."

And what I'm saying is, that's an opinion because there are people here, even in this thread, that like that gameplay. I'm not even defending it. I'm just saying some people like it, some people don't. You are in the camp that doesn't like it. And that's okay.

It's as simple as that.

[Melorie]

This is what you said, man: "It is a fact that XIV has the least engaging gameplay for MSQ in the MMO genre. Even if we enjoy the overall plot. No matter how amazing the Trials are as "Wow factors", the dullness between them still isn't engaging."

And what I'm saying is, that's an opinion because there are people here, even in this thread, that like that gameplay. I'm not even defending it. I'm just saying some people like it, some people don't. You are in the camp that doesn't like it. And that's okay.

It's as simple as that.

That gameplay barely exists. I feel like this is the point you're missing. FFXIV is the only MMO where everyone I know that started playing is like "wait. when do I start to hit any kind of mob?". A lot of people actually ride through it or accept this aspect, even enjoy it... But the fact that the gameplay is pretty much non-existant is still a fact. You can enjoy this but that doesn't change it.

[Lium]

A lot of people actually ride through it or accept this aspect, even enjoy it...

Which is the point. And the only point I was making. No other points have been missed.