SE, no effort anywhere lately.

[Zebraoracle]

I personally don't play other MMOs at the moment but anytime I see talk about the content we get, it always seems way better off than other games (ex: wow with one patch in one year).

That comment about 7.0 just screams FFXIV forums. Shadowbringer and Endwalker had the biggest boom of population in the game but sure, it's gonna die. Not denying that there's problems with the game of course, but you guys blow it out of proportions all the time.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you here, but I do want to point out being better than another MMO (which, honestly, in this situation 14 is pretty ahead of others) doesn't automatically mean it's good, it could also just be the least bad.

Granted, I would be interested in seeing how other online games do stuff with content releases. I don't play a lot of online games anymore, so I'm curious how often other games release new, meaningful content, not just MMOs either.

[Thurmnmurmn]

Yeah, the boom wasn't because Shadowbringers was good. It's because WoW was bad and there was a major media campaign to get everyone to quit. We can't really conflate the 2, because if we did then we wouldn't be low pop right now.

It's not like we magically solved all of our problems, and we all of a sudden had better systems than WoW. They're 2 very different games. WoW arguably has better gameplay engagement and longevity overall.

Also don't compare XIV to other MMOs, you need to compare it to all Live Service games. This isn't 2001 anymore, the line is blurred.

The low population is fairly normal during catch up patches though.
I know I personally (and a lot of people I play with) LOVED shadowbringer. Endwalker less so, but you can't amount all of the success of the game to wow failing. The argument you used as the 2 games being very different works for both instances here.

So let me get this straight, are you comparing content that we get in patches to other games (if so that's not a fair comparison at all) or are you comparing the expansions to other games?

[R041]

They said its not Lumi. And it seems you dont know how game development works. For MMO? Yes, you dont wanna change engine, of course. For new custom project? Yes, you can do it, why wouldnt you?. Also, Lumi engine used in FF15 and Forspoken are so far from each other, its not even close. And you make it that artists cant adapt? Man, Im gonna tell you that a most of them work in multiple at once!

Also, all your stuff about engine before was pulled from your arse. You know Lumi have nothing to do with Yoshida, right. Its not "theirs". So I really dont know what he would prove. You talking about the Lumi fork for FF14? We dont know whats that can do, but I can assure, that one is not enough for standalone title.

Why you comin' in hot? I thought we were pals.

We both don't know, so don't act like you know more than I do buddy. lol

I said as a hypothetical - that if I were to run a studio, knowing that I had to continuously pull from my previous team, I would focus on what my previous team knew and kept the tools consistent. 'Art' is a bit below what's fully required for a whole team to adapt to another game engine and especially a new codebase. You don't just immediately adapt from something like Unity C# to Unreal C++, neither do you immediately adapt from Legacy to PBR pipeline. (Okay, PBR is kinda easy actually)

Creative Business Unit III doesn't just immediately work on a completely new engine and pipeline with ease, especially within the timeframe they had, also knowing they need to continuously work on both projects. Could you just imagine having to train so many people on an engine you're not familiar with? https://mp1st.com/news/report-final-...uminous-engine

My bets are on it being an extension of XIV's Crystal Tools, which is why we're getting graphical upgrades.

Endwalker less so, but you can't amount all of the success of the game to wow failing.

No, not all of the success. But it did get a massive weird boost during one of the largest XIV content lulls because of the WoW Exodus. The Exodus dot isn't random, it's based on the release dates of large WoW Exodus videos and streams that happened between June and July.

[Rolder50]

No, not all of the success. But it did get a massive weird boost during one of the largest XIV content lulls because of the WoW Exodus. The Exodus dot isn't random, it's based on the release dates of large WoW Exodus videos and streams that happened between June and July.

And even with EW coming out, the patch peaks are still below what it was during the exodus. Which I find interesting.

[CStrife912]

Why you comin' in hot? I thought we were pals.

We both don't know, so don't act like you know more than I do buddy. lol

I said as a hypothetical - that if I were to run a studio, knowing that I had to continuously pull from my previous team, I would focus on what my previous team knew and kept the tools consistent. 'Art' is a bit below what's fully required for a whole team to adapt to another game engine and especially a new codebase. You don't just immediately adapt from something like Unity C# to Unreal C++, neither do you immediately adapt from Legacy to PBR pipeline. (Okay, PBR is kinda easy actually)

Creative Business Unit III doesn't just immediately work on a completely new engine and pipeline with ease, especially within the timeframe they had, also knowing they need to continuously work on both projects. Could you just imagine having to train so many people on an engine you're not familiar with? https://mp1st.com/news/report-final-...uminous-engine

My bets are on it being an extension of XIV's Crystal Tools, which is why we're getting graphical upgrades.

I believe to answer your question it’s a little long winded but il keep it short. It’s not crystal tools at all that was scrapped for the mmo and just used for FF13 and it’s 2 sequels. It’s also not luminous, it’s a bespoke engine that shares similar properties to luminous because the lead engineer who made it went in and helped them on theirs but it’s bespoke basically. This extended into FF16 which uses the same engine as 14, a few years ago they had someone go in and build a physical based renderer for their engine and that shows in 16 and even in the character model previews of the graphics overhaul presentation (granted backgrounds hadn’t had the shader/texture work just yet so we haven’t seen examples there)

So yeah they did planning and pre production in unreal engine 4 for FF16 and found they weren’t getting the results they wanted so went back to the tools they knew and got someone in to expand their engines features. You can tell works been done not only for the PBR that was built but FF14 getting a dynamic resolution scaler now, something trivial now but actually wasn’t part of their older tools.

[R041]

...

Thanks for the insight!

So technically I'm not wrong, I just don't have the full details of this weird family tree? Haha

XIV's engine seems like this weird homogenization and mixing of Crystal Tools core, or it's just because it has the same engineers. So maybe saying it's a fork might be incorrect, but a better term would be within the same family. I believe they're ultimately working with what they know, and have extended XIV's engine with a PBR render pipeline for XVI.

I've talked about the idea that XIV might eventually get PBR because of this, but maybe they're just pulling the other visual upgrades with a more up to date render and sticking with Legacy pipeline. They can technically get away with using PBR in XIV without a completely updated art pipeline, it's just a lot of flat or generated passes for the materials.

[magitekLuna]

the real problem is that lots pf players happy they get this extremally bland game . the game in one of its most populated times and in the MOST boring state it ever was. so you as yoshi will change any thing? they do the bare minimum and people LOVE it.
sadly before people find their self respect shit will not change

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

The low population is fairly normal during catch up patches though.
I know I personally (and a lot of people I play with) LOVED shadowbringer. Endwalker less so, but you can't amount all of the success of the game to wow failing. The argument you used as the 2 games being very different works for both instances here.

So let me get this straight, are you comparing content that we get in patches to other games (if so that's not a fair comparison at all) or are you comparing the expansions to other games?

Well with SE been tanking the last 2 years we may not have to worry for a 10 year live service of FFXIV if SE closes it's doors. One game cannot keep a company afloat forever. Yoshida needs to do something to make FFXIV more appealing quick

[CStrife912]

Well with SE been tanking the last 2 years we may not have to worry for a 10 year live service of FFXIV if SE closes it's doors. One game cannot keep a company afloat forever. Yoshida needs to do something to make FFXIV more appealing quick

Highly untrue....yeah S-E have been making some questionable choices but they have sold off their western studios which was something they should of done a long time ago. They are still making plenty of money and they're re-doubling their efforts on the Japanese games side of things. Crisis Core sold well, 7 remake part 2 will likely do well and perception of FF16 is really good so I expect that to probably rake in pretty well too. FF14 makes the most money for them and has gone from strength to strength technically they have had millions of people register in such a small window and if we go from before endwalker now...the jump has been massive. There would need to be a wow situation of back to back negative expansions before a real change could be had. Someone above said and it is true content roadmaps are done well in advance...they know likely what they have planned for the whole 7.X series.. there isn't much they can change because that sort of stuff does need to be set in stone otherwise it looses focus and infrequent patches become a thing or feel disconnected from it all. I am not by all means white knighting the game or the company but it isn't in a bad state....the forum and reddit are but a small fraction of the community its not an example of the wider picture.

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

Highly untrue....yeah S-E have been making some questionable choices but they have sold off their western studios which was something they should of done a long time ago. They are still making plenty of money and they're re-doubling their efforts on the Japanese games side of things. Crisis Core sold well, 7 remake part 2 will likely do well and perception of FF16 is really good so I expect that to probably rake in pretty well too. FF14 makes the most money for them and has gone from strength to strength technically they have had millions of people register in such a small window and if we go from before endwalker now...the jump has been massive. There would need to be a wow situation of back to back negative expansions before a real change could be had. Someone above said and it is true content roadmaps are done well in advance...they know likely what they have planned for the whole 7.X series.. there isn't much they can change because that sort of stuff does need to be set in stone otherwise it looses focus and infrequent patches become a thing or feel disconnected from it all. I am not by all means white knighting the game or the company but it isn't in a bad state....the forum and reddit are but a small fraction of the community its not an example of the wider picture.

Well with Forspoken bombing like crazy and SE shut down that studio just a month after release makes you truly wonder. FFXIV has become very stale and dated live service. Content is not that big and lately has brought nothing new to the table for a while now. Unless Yoshida can revamp FFXIV somehow and change some of the QoL that people have asked for years but refuse (looking at tome gear/raid gear/savage gear needs to change) FFXIV cannot last for 10 years if they keep doing rinse and repeat. I even skip event cutscenes for the annual events we get since they are boring. Island Sanctuary has died out very quickly as well. Majority of people didn't like I.S now I feel that was a waste of time and development. Yoshida and his team come up with these lackluster ideas that sound good on paper but when implemented never hit their mark as intended and then it get's forgotten