The Definition of "Handsome"

[Kes13a]

Hey, be nice to Poor Aveyond. His word alone dictates if the game will survive or not.
And dont challenge him, because he will never back up his claims, but he will ignore you.
He is tough cookie

he does speak for EVERYONE after all so you are completely correct. FFxiv is circling the drain and only he can save us!

surprisingly, I can survive being ignored... hope thats not too upsetting

[Gemina]

I do accept that it's your experience, but in books I've read, some kinda old in the context they were written, women were called "handsome" at times but in a quite neutral manner. Heck in the Valentione quest this time around our companion was called "handsome", like someone mentioned earlier. A woman like a Highlander would get called that.

Also I understand your take on femininity/masculinity applying only on women/men respectively, Gemina. I've seen your posts across time on that topic, and sometimes I agree. But just like men can embrace being androgynous or even feminine - like Veena M Viera for example - women can embrace their naturally brawny, tall or muscular stature too. Sometimes people just don't fit the box they "belong" to, and they can pull that off too.

Real life isn't a fictional story you read in a book or a quest in a video game. Even textbooks that depict historical context come from different times, regions, and demographics. That is why I used my own experience in this regard. Now I totally understand what you're saying when it comes to men embracing femininity, and females embracing masculinity. The issue in the current time is females rejecting their femininity, and males rejecting their masculinity. These traits are considered toxic when displayed by the sex that corresponds to them, and celebrated when the opposite sex exhibits them. All under a false pretense that this 'empowers' the person, when it does just the opposite. Civilization was not built or sustained by these principles. Our species also cannot propagate in this manner either.

You're right. Not everyone fits perfectly into a mold defined by their biological sex. Ronda Rousy is a great example of a woman exhibiting masculine traits who still embraced her femininity and allowed it to empower her. While Prince is a great example of a man who was very effeminate, yet drew upon his masculine energy to build an empire and a legacy that will exist for decades, if not longer. These two people are entertainers though. Their lives are not what the majority of us small folk go through. Reality bites, it stings, and is often unpleasant. Which is why if you're a woman and someone calls you "handsome" they are very likely making fun of you.

It is interesting that beautiful men are now a fairly acceptable thing, and yet handsome women has the connotation of being too masculine. It's odd, why can't a woman prefer to be more 'handsome' (whatever that might be) and have that be okay? If Zero was considered handsome, would that be a bad thing?

The word "beautiful" is not the same as handsome. It has many different connotations and meaning behind it. The word can be used to describe a sunset, freshly fallen snow, or the birth of a child. The word "handsome" has far more specificity tied to it.

Zero being called handsome would suggest that she looks more masculine than feminine. The antonym to the word handsome you're looking for is "pretty". When a male is referred to as pretty, it suggests that his appearance is more feminine. If Zero was a male, I think the word "pretty" would apply quite well; as does the word "handsome" for her currently. Because Zero has an androgynous look to her, it is easier for both terms to apply to her. My personal take on her is that she still leans ever so slightly towards feminine, which is why I would not refer to her as handsome.

[Midareyukki]

I'm starting to wonder what this thread thinks of the Jungian concept of the Anima and the Animus.

[CidHeiral]

[Kes13a]

I am sad I can only like this once lol

[VictorTheed]

I don't really see her as the typical girly girl type of woman like Ystola, lyse or Minfilia is, but she's still feminum to me, she don't really look,sound or act like a dude.

She reminds me of a calm mannered quiet caring goth or emo girl who is not very talkative or out going but seems like if u get to know her she'd be a sweetheart in her own way.

That's the vibes I get from her appearance and how she acts.

[rainichan]

I hate that I'm replying, but a machine-translated article does not mean Zero is meant to be a dude, and the use of 'his' in the translation means exactly 0 things. It means that the machine translating the article used a gender pronoun when the actual text usually just means a person. In this case, breaking down the actual text used, a human would translate the 'he' the machine used as 'they' since Zero is supposed to be androgynous (though I think we know Zero is more feminine but has 'handsome features', which is what the scenario team asked for to get the point across that Zero is pretty masculine, but also feminine.)

In this case it would be "The scenario team wanted me to make an androgynous character, who has masculine features." Machine translations are great for understanding things, but actual context clues and nuance is always lost. If you look at translations where the devs talk about an actual female character like Y'shtola or Lyse or someone, a machine translation will still say 'he' regarding them, it's not just this one case and it doesn't mean that those characters are also males. It just means machines suck at translating beyond a surface translation meant to be able to read it with some level of understanding.

If you're going to rehash this same subject for the nth time, might I suggest just necroing your own thread instead? Though tbh this doesn't even warrant a thread necro for something stupid like "this clearly androgynous character who at least seems vaguely feminine though who's to say just yet beyond the voice should be RUGGED AND HANDSOME LIKE SOME RUGGED DUDE FROM A DIFFERENT GAME IN THE SERIES." You're entitled to your opinion on what kind of dudes you find hot, but you don't speak for everyone, either.

[hagare]

While this is probably true, japanese artists also codified an entire genre of hyper-masculine art. (mostly geared towards gay men) So it's not entirely black and white.

well that would explain jojo

[Midareyukki]

well that would explain jojo

Similar style, but not quite. Usually bara tends to be a lot larger. JoJo is still pretty skinny all things considered, though it is on the right track.

Think Roegadyn-type bodies. That's the sort of thing you'd see in Bara. There's usually an emphasis on making guys wide as well as muscled, so JoJo is grazing it, but not really in the same camp.

Plus, it's characterized as made by men for men with not much thought given on whether it's appealing to women or not. JoJo is a shounen so it operates by different rules. (Or rather, started out as one, then got upgraded to Seinen). One's more LGBT-oriented and specifically meant to come across as lewd. The other is just there for "the coolness" aspect.

Araki's art and storytelling isn't the same as Gai Mizuki, for example.

[RobynDaBank]

I guess Baki would fit that better than JoJo, though Part I JoJo was almost as much brawn (but it got toned down part after part, the least of it starting from Part 4). Nowadays the characters are lean rather than buff.