Change SCH Dissipation

[RyuDragnier]

I'm sorry, many?

Outside of the normal 3 (Single target, DoT, AoE), they have Toxicon (which is just ED combined with Ruin II), Phlegma, and Pneuma. All of which also heal your Kardia target as you attack and feel good to use. 2 of them don't even waste any of your valuable healing resources. Pneuma does (being an AoE heal with the line AoE), but it still feels so good to use.

[Nizzi]

Nahh, ED isn't that fun.

AST cards are fun since it's productive downtime for extra damage for the party.
SGE's many attacks are fun.
WHM's Presence of Mind into Glare spam is fun (of the spammy I WILL DESTROY YOU nature).
SCH's ED? You don't touch it unless you know you don't need the AF stacks anytime soon or AF is coming off cooldown. Otherwise it just sits there, and if you just use it nilly willy you get punished for it. That ain't fun.

None of what you listed is fun at all (to me).
AST cards are insanely overwhelmingly boring with no thought, applying a flat % damage buff on people isn't my idea of fun at all, it's meaningless busywork.
SGE doesn't have any more attacks than any other healer, and Phlegma is insanely boring and interacts with literally nothing, unlike Energy Drain.
Presence of Mind is more Glare spam, but if you think that kind of thing is fun, more power to you.
ED is a skill thats usage changes per fight and per optimization, and as you grow more comfortable with a fight and your cohealer and healing plan, you get to use more. Different strokes for different folks, but Energy Drain isn't punishing at all. I'm simply in the camp that doesn't find meaningless, boring buttons like Glare or Phlegma fun.

[ty_taurus]

Outside of the normal 3 (Single target, DoT, AoE), they have Toxicon (which is just ED combined with Ruin II), Phlegma, and Pneuma. All of which also heal your Kardia target as you attack and feel good to use. 2 of them don't even waste any of your valuable healing resources. Pneuma does (being an AoE heal with the line AoE), but it still feels so good to use.

First of all, that isn't "many." Second of all, Pneuma isn't really an offensive button because no one uses it as such. You use it when you need the healing. Third of all ,Toxikon may as well not exist because most of the time, you'll only ever get 3 uses of a mobility tool that you don't even always need. Even when you have free uses, it's barely even useful in AoE scenarios. For tools that SGE will regularly engage with, they have 3 DPS buttons: Dosis/Dyskrasia (depending on if you're fighting trash enemies or not), your DoT, and Phlegma.

In contrast...
WHM will regularly engage with: Glare/Holy, Dia, Assize, and Afflatus Misery: 4 buttons.
SCH will regularly engage with: Broil/Art of War, Biolysis, Energy Drain, and Chain Stratagem: 4 buttons
AST will regularly engage with: Malefic/Gravity, Combust, Draw, Divination, Earthly Star, and Major Arcana: 6 buttons.

SGE has the smallest amount of tools that are consistently used regardless of healing requirements or movement needs. Not all of these buttons are equal in how much they necessarily contribute to your gameplay, nor is it representative of how fun those jobs are, but SGE is the farthest healer from having "many" offensive tools.

[Renathras]

None of what you listed is fun at all (to me).

And I think this is the important thing everyone always somehow overlooks:

What is fun to some isn't always fun to others. So saying something is fun isn't a mic drop objective fact that everyone takes it as. Some things are fun to more people and some things less, some things aren't really fun for much of anyone and a few rare things have near universal appeal...but none are absolute. So better to describe why you find it fun than simply stating as a fact that it is or is not.

First of all, that isn't "many."

Many depends on context. Is a thousand "many"? Well, are we talking pennies or galaxies? SGE has the most damage spells of all the Healers, and comparable to the number of single target attacks a WAR uses (1-2-3, -4, Fell Cleave [the upgrade is still the same thing], oGCD, and Primal Rend), having one less. I suppose it's subjective in the sense of what you consider many in this case. And if by "many" he means "more than the other Healers" and that he engages with them - you say "regularly" in bold, but Ryu did not use that qualifier... - then many it is.

Further, again, "fun" is subjective. Who are you to tell him if what he is doing is fun gameplay to him or not? Moreover, how do you even define "regularly" here? Major Arcana is only 1 per minute. Earthly Star is also once per minute. Divination is once every 2. Draw, Divination, and 50% of the time Major Arcana aren't attacks. On the other hand, SGE constantly uses Addersgall abilities for MP, using Kardia on CD unless there's a specific reason to hold it and trying to intelligently use Ixo or Tauro. This already gives them more frequent use of all of those buttons than any of the AST CDs you listed other than Draw...which still has a slower refresh rate than AG.

The contest isn't framed only in the way you see it, friend.

[ty_taurus]

how do you even define "regularly" here? Major Arcana is only 1 per minute. Earthly Star is also once per minute. Divination is once every 2. Draw, Divination, and 50% of the time Major Arcana aren't attacks. On the other hand, SGE constantly uses Addersgall abilities for MP, using Kardia on CD unless there's a specific reason to hold it and trying to intelligently use Ixo or Tauro.

Regularly means that, when playing AST, you will always be using Minor Arcana on cooldown. You don't need the fight to tell you when to use it. It doesn't matter if you're fighting the final instance battle boss of EW, or progging savage, you will always use Minor Arcana. Meanwhile, you will only use Pneuma when you need a powerful burst healing tool, which in many cases is never. Most content doesn't put out enough damage to demand that much healing from SGE, and as far as your healing resources are concerned, you want to take every opportunity to use Addersgall healing tools first specifically to avoid having to waste Druocholes on MP gain. And you could say that makes Druochole a semi-regular MP management tool, but it feels awful to have to use it that way.

Healers need more tools that are always useful regardless of whether or not the party needs healing. As has been said to an exhausting degree, this doesn't always have to equate to offensive buttons, but offensive buttons are by in large the most straightfoward and effective ways of providing that. Regularly used tools are ones that don't demand healing be needed.

[AnotherPerson]

Many depends on context. Is a thousand "many"? Well, are we talking pennies or galaxies? SGE has the most damage spells of all the Healers, and comparable to the number of single target attacks a WAR uses (1-2-3, -4, Fell Cleave [the upgrade is still the same thing], oGCD, and Primal Rend), having one less.

Just because Sage has the most damage spells of all healers, it's nowhere near comparable to the number of single target attacks a tank uses on its regular DPS rotation at all. Would you consider it "many" when WAR has quite literally double the number of DPS skills in its rotation? Once you also consider the fact that Warriors have many more attack skills with a cooldown, the number of variations in attack skills they have drastically increases as well.

WAR Single Target Rotation:
1. Basic combo - Heavy Swing, Maim, Storm's Path [3]
2. Alternative combo - Storm's Eye - applied every 30 seconds flexibly [4]
3. Fell Cleave - Roughly every 6 to 7 basic GCDs (~15 seconds) to build up Gauge if you don't count Infuriate or Inner Release [5]
4. Inner Release / Infuriate - One every 60 seconds for more Fell Cleave / Inner Chaos thanks to interaction [7]
5. Onslaught - One every 30 seconds [8]
6. Upheaval - One every 30 seconds [9]
6. Primal Rend - One every Inner Release (60 seconds) [10]

Uncounted for: Tomahawk -- because it's not used as a skill in the DPS rotation actively

SGE Single Target Rotation:
1. Basic Single Target attack skill - Dosis [1]
2. E. Dosis - DoT, one every 30 seconds [2]
3. Phlegma - One every 40 seconds [3]
4. Toxikon - 3 uses in total for the entire fight [4]

Uncounted for: Pneuma -- because it's not used as a skill in the DPS rotation, but a skill as part of your healing rotation.

Adding Toxikon is already a stretch, because you can't get more uses without dipping into GCD shields, and GCD shields are not related to your DPS rotation at all. You don't regenerate addersting naturally, and therefore can never get more than 3 if you never need to apply Eukrasian shields. Even accounting for it, WAR has more than double the number of Single Target skills in its regular rotation. Now, if we actually had addersting support skills that encourage the generation of addersting, at least then Toxikon would feel like a solid [4] attack skills now that they actually get some usage every certain amount of time. However, WAR still possesses over double the number of attack skills than Sage has in its regular attack usage.

And if you don't want to counter Inner Release or Infuriate giving Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos multiple uses as a skill on the regular attack rotation because they're modifying the same button, you might as well remove Eukrasia allowing access to Eukrasian Dosis. That just makes the attack rotations look even worse for sage in comparison.

[SenzorialBoundries]

you will only use Pneuma when you need a powerful burst healing tool, which in many cases is never. Most content doesn't put out enough damage to demand that much healing from SGE, and as far as your healing resources are concerned, you want to take every opportunity to use Addersgall healing tools first specifically to avoid having to waste Druocholes on MP gain. And you could say that makes Druochole a semi-regular MP management tool, but it feels awful to have to use it that way.

What? You do need it and its not only about needing it you need to get max usages of pneuma every encounter because zoe coupled with pneuma saves a lot of resources both of your own and of your co-healer. Take p8s for example its extremly hard to heal spread into stack if the other healer get NA if you dont zoe pneuma when you are going to your spot.

[ty_taurus]

What? You do need it and its not only about needing it you need to get max usages of pneuma every encounter because zoe coupled with pneuma saves a lot of resources both of your own and of your co-healer. Take p8s for example its extremly hard to heal spread into stack if the other healer get NA if you dont zoe pneuma when you are going to your spot.

So you're suggesting that Pneuma is a use-on-cooldown action? You use Pneuma every 2 minutes no matter the circumstances? You get Barbariccia normal in Trial Roulette, and Pneuma is an every 2 minutes action? You use it every 2 minutes when running Lapis Manalis? Every 2 minutes when in a treasure map dungeon? Do you think you'll be using it on cooldown when doing the upcoming Deep Dungeon?

[ForsakenRoe]

What? You do need it and its not only about needing it you need to get max usages of pneuma every encounter because zoe coupled with pneuma saves a lot of resources both of your own and of your co-healer. Take p8s for example its extremly hard to heal spread into stack if the other healer get NA if you dont zoe pneuma when you are going to your spot.

Interesting, personally I used Indom after first stackspread, Holos after the second, then Zoe Pneuma between fire/ice. I don't play barrier healers enough to have a concrete mit plan for fights though

also, what Taurus means is that you're holding onto it until NA, so it doesn't count. For it to count as a 'part of your damage rotation' you'd have been blowing it inside the raidbuff window for more damage. Ironically, it IS 'more damage' if fired into a group of enemies, as it's got 40% falloff compared to Toxicon's 50%, so in AOE it's a slight gain over Toxicon. But the point was about ST fights, so it's not a gain, it's damage neutral, so we cannot count it.

[RyuDragnier]

Just because Sage has the most damage spells of all healers, it's nowhere near comparable to the number of single target attacks a tank uses on its regular DPS rotation at all. Would you consider it "many" when WAR has quite literally double the number of DPS skills in its rotation? Once you also consider the fact that Warriors have many more attack skills with a cooldown, the number of variations in attack skills they have drastically increases as well.

No offense, but why in the hell did you do something as foolish as compare a healer's amount of DPS moves to a tank's? They're not the same role, you can't compare them.