Dark Knight Megathread

[Guts-BSM]

Unironically use the new HP potions they added for the new deep dungeon.

Shits pretty good

pardon my ignorance but hyper potions or something else ?

[Derio]

I am expecting a full restructure of abilities on all jobs to make the leveling experience easier.

[Lyth]

I'm not sure if that will come up next expansion, though. There's been some talk in interviews with Yoshi-p about what he wants to do with the levelling system after Lv. 100. It sounds like they're undecided at the moment but that they probably will do something different. The levelling issue itself arises from the fact that job reworks and removed actions result in very uneven action acquisition as you level up. But if the entire levelling process stands to be reworked in 8.0, they'll probably wait until that point to do major restructuring.

I don't really have strong feelings about self-healing on DRK at the moment, simply because damage negation is a pretty fun effect as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if Oblation ends up being bundled together as an upgraded TBN, but it will probably come at the cost of recast. They'll have to rethink what to do with the current Dark Arts system if they do. The action that bothers me the most is Dark Missionary. Raidwide mitigation on tanks has been fairly unbalanced since Stormblood. Missonary and Heart of Light just feel like they were running out of ideas after giving all the best raidwide defensive designs to PLD and WAR. If we're going with conditional defensives, why not an effect inspired by Runic to let you either redirect or absorb magical raidwides? Or alternatively, just give DRK a second way to temporarily debuff the boss outside of Reprisal. That way it feels a bit less like an inferior hand-me-down.

[nguyentri11]

yea i have seen this live and i agree with what you said but that looks like a skill speed issue to me

There is a DRK BiS set that runs 2.5 GCD, however. If a player(casual or not) wants to run a slow GCD, why should they be punished for it on a rare occasion just because they prefer a slow GCD?

[Guts-BSM]

There is a DRK BiS set that runs 2.5 GCD, however. If a player(casual or not) wants to run a slow GCD, why should they be punished for it on a rare occasion just because they prefer a slow GCD?

that's something i can't argue about.

[Zairava]

I don't really have strong feelings about self-healing on DRK at the moment, simply because damage negation is a pretty fun effect as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if Oblation ends up being bundled together as an upgraded TBN, but it will probably come at the cost of recast. They'll have to rethink what to do with the current Dark Arts system if they do. The action that bothers me the most is Dark Missionary. Raidwide mitigation on tanks has been fairly unbalanced since Stormblood. Missonary and Heart of Light just feel like they were running out of ideas after giving all the best raidwide defensive designs to PLD and WAR. If we're going with conditional defensives, why not an effect inspired by Runic to let you either redirect or absorb magical raidwides? Or alternatively, just give DRK a second way to temporarily debuff the boss outside of Reprisal. That way it feels a bit less like an inferior hand-me-down.

The negation is fun as is, the problem is more we just need a bit of sustain to be in line with the others. Nothing drastic, just...a bit. That's why I bring up sole survivor every time when this topic comes up. As nice as it would be, I don't think they would put it on an offensive ability purely because it wouldn't be on-demand, you would still being using Carve and Spit for damage anyway so some healing could potentially get wasted. They brought bulwark back, so there's some hope...right?


I see Dark Arts going one of two routes if they decide work on it again. either purely offensive or both offensive and defensive. purely defensive is very unlike due to you needing to use and OGCD to get the maximum effect out of your mits, and putting this even a few abilities that is relevant now in raiding...well..we would be literally treading into a dual DRK meta if the dps was to stay the same in 7.0

General DRK modifications to keep in mind moving forward within this post:

• Shadowbringer is on a mana cost with a single charge
• Delirium is on a mana cost and gives a flat 50 gauge
• TBN still keeps its mana cost, and provides a free edge/flood when broken. (the effect name is something different. Dark Retaliation for example.)
• Dark Arts has no mana cost and is togglable just like gundam DA is (it's Eukrasia I'm referring to)
• lvl 100 gives your Living Shadow a trait that makes your darkside merge with you and increases the potency of abilities by 10% for 15s
• Sole Survivor returns?

purely offensive route is just as it was in Stormblood but toned down significantly

Upon Dark Arts Activation:

• Scourge Replaces Souleater or hard slash as a combo action. (This, of course, means Scourge is returned as a DoT or weakness debuff that allows the DRK themselves to deal more damage to the target(s). otherwise, souleater's or hard slash's existence are pointless)
• increases the potency of bloodspiller by 50
• increases the potency of Quietus by 20 or 30
• increases the potency of stalwart soul by 20 or 30 (in the event scourge is not aoe)

Both offensive and defensive:

• Scourge replaces souleater or hard slash as a combo action. (Again, this does, of course, mean that scourge returns as a DoT or weakness debuff to the target.) The weakness debuff in this case, however would be that Scourge, on the same potency as Souleater/Hard Slash, makes the target deal 5-10% less damage in both physical and magical damage. This would mean that DRK has a form of sustained mitigation. Solo or otherwise
• Increases the potency of bloodspiller by 50
• Makes Salted Earth provide a 10% mit while standing in it
• Gives TBN a bonus 10% mit on top of the shield. (same button presses...kinda? more interesting and satisfying feel, I'd think)

Before we could tell what was physical or magical I'd be inclined to agree with Dark Missionary, but I don't mind it being there now as a form of party mit.

[Zairava]

Alright, I have yet another idea for DRK, but this revolves making the current iteration of TBN something more...by essentially giving it more impact. I wouldn't consider this a new idea, but the execution is a bit different.

Let me start with how TBN is modified

• It now gives a 20% shield instead of a 25%. This is done intentionally to make it easier to break outside of Tankbusters.
• Now gives a second status on top of Dark Arts. We'll use "Bathed in Blood" from my prior concepts as the placeholder here. They could show this as a UI element next to the Dark Arts icon

If you've seen some prior posts here this direction may not be surprising. Dark Arts and Bathed in Blood upgrade actions, plain and simple. This where it makes up for the TBN nerf.

Let's start with Dark Arts.

• Flood of Shadow upgrades into Dark Passenger, dealing the same potency as Flood, granting darkside, etc, but it will inflict blind status on all enemies hit for 6s (except bosses)
• Edge Of Shadow evolves into ???(uses old Delirium animation). This provides a 10% mit for 6s. Again, same potency.

Now we'll get into Bathed in Blood:

• Souleater evolves into Scourge. It has the same potency as Souleater and provides a 700 potency heal instead of 300.
• Stalwart Soul evolves into Abyssal Drain, which is the same potency as Stalwart Soul, and provides a 300 potency heal per enemy hit (this, of course, means that Carve and Spit is unlinked from Abyssal Drain).

Simplifying which abilities they actually effect between the two, Dark Arts effects OGCD's, Bathed in Blood effects GCD's.

This would help sustainability in both dungeons and single-target, and make the procs provide something more than just a refunded edge/flood. All without making it a damage gain.

As such, that's why TBN itself is nerfed a bit. To ensure that it isn't overwhelmingly powerful because of what comes after.

They could just as easily give the base abilities themselves the effects when DA and BiB procs, but that wouldn't really make the job feel any different. They have a surplus of old animations they removed from Dark Knight, so I don't think it would be too much to ask to have them back via this method.

The reason there is another status given is to avoid conflict between Dark Passenger and Abyssal Drain, and ???(old delirium animation) and Scourge.
Bloodspiller isn't included in the evolved abilities from Bathed in Blood is because at that point, it is a dps gain, as Bloodspiller and quietus are stronger than Souleater and Stalwart Soul, respectively.

[Lyth]

It's okay for DRK to have a weakness in self-sustain. I would sooner have DRK focus on damage negation as a defensive style unique to the job than I would have all tanks have identical heals, damage negation shields, and damage reduction effects. The only point that I would suggest around self-sustain on DRK is that it be more consistent between single target and AoE.

The biggest issue that I have with self-sustain is that it moves us one step closer to an action MMO format where everyone is responsible for their own healing/defensives. You should always be dependent on your tanks and healers to play well, or else why would you pick those roles? When you weaken that dependence then the playerbase shifts away from those roles. And a lot of self-sustain effects are fairly passive, requiring little to no judgement from the player around timing. It would be quite a bit different if lifesteal operated on a 'heal back x% of damage done to you in the past y seconds'.

[Roquepo]

Just started playing the class, so don't know how fit I am to add my thoughts here about the topic (GNB main during both Endwalker tiers, for reference), but I cannot believe how disconnected the kit really is. Like, the class is a collection of oGCD buttons only tied to their own CD that you can sort of press whenever. In a no buff comp, you can just press those buttons at any time, in any way and it wouldn't ever matter as long as you don't cap up resources or lose usages through the fight.

And I think the biggest offender for this is Living Shadow. The coolest ability DRK gets being a glorified DoT is unforgivable. It should replicate what you do instead of what it currently does. Better be a flavorful damage buff than a fire and forget DoT.

Mitigation wise, and this is pretty minor as I like the mit kit of the job, Dark Mind and Oblation should be swapped level-wise. Going through early dungeons as DRK is a bit of a pain, with just 2 CDs, reprisal and Arm's Length. The second charge could be added with a trait at a later level if it is of any concern for whatever reason. Also Dark Missionary not being available in lvl 70 content feels wrong.

Also, Blood Weapon should have an on-hit healing effect just for flavor alone.

And just to preface, I'm here just to vent, not to propose changes to SE. I think it is a shame that the class is a convoluted and disconnected mess, as I really dig the aesthetics and the mana related part of the kit.

[Shurrikhan]

Just started playing the class, so don't know how fit I am to add my thoughts here about the topic (GNB main during both Endwalker tiers, for reference), but I cannot believe how disconnected the kit really is. Like, the class is a collection of oGCD buttons only tied to their own CD that you can sort of press whenever. In a no buff comp, you can just press those buttons at any time, in any way and it wouldn't ever matter as long as you don't cap up resources or lose usages through the fight.

I have to wonder, though... is that so bad? Alone, you need only not overcap; in buffed parties, you should bank as much as you can without overcapping. But... is that really a problem to, when solo, have more freedom / fewer constraints / less direction than most? Tanks aren't generally something one wants to play solo anyways, and outside of a WHM-or-SGE/SAM-BLM-or-MCHx2 light party, you're going to have some manner of buff that'll oblige those timings in the same way a No Mercy or Fight or Flight would.

Nor is there any real synergy other than that among any tank job anymore; Upheaval and Spirits Within interactions with HP, stances, etc., are all a distant past.

That's not to say I don't agree that it's lackluster and could be improved, but... in what way did you want to see improvement, because it seems only two jobs offer anything more in that regard, and DRK falls only a generic damage buff window away from them?

And I think the biggest offender for this is Living Shadow. The coolest ability DRK gets being a glorified DoT is unforgivable. It should replicate what you do instead of what it currently does. Better be a flavorful damage buff than a fire and forget DoT.

Agreed.

Also, Blood Weapon should have an on-hit healing effect just for flavor alone.

Tentatively agreed. It's worth noting though that in the past every MP expenditure had a tanking benefit outside of Carve and Spit (which was a mere margining mechanic). DA-Souleater meant more self-healing, too; DA-Power Slash gave a metric ton of threat; DA-Dark Passenger also added a blind for mitigation; DA-AD was the only way to get it to do any healing; and all else were buffs to your next defensive among Dark Mind or Dark Dance. In that sense, the MP generation on Blood Weapon was almost always also a means of sustain; it was just perhaps out of balance, overly favoring only DA-CnS, -SE, and -AD for AoE sustain.

If, for instance, it returned to that (with Edge/Flood/Shadowbringer healing or adding to current shielding, etc.), would BW's granting MP alone still seem to lack sustain flavor (rather than just seeming a more bankable/timeable means of self-sustain)?