Dark Knight Megathread

[Colt47]

I really see no reason why TBN couldn't give the dark arts stack upon the effect fading like HoC does with healing.

I know! It is baffling why it isn't that way and it is all of these little details that just leave me scratching my head.

[Rithy255]

I really see no reason why TBN couldn't give the dark arts stack upon the effect fading like HoC does with healing.

I think it's to add "risk vs rework" to the job, which made sense in SHB when it was bar none the best short CD on a even shorter CD.

Honestly I'd be fine with this though, I want to be able to use TBN actively to protect people who i think might mess up a mech, instead of just not bothering at risk of losing DPS.

[Supersnow845]

Jobs for punish you for using your skills wrong, TBN and dissipation are literally the last examples of this phenomenon existing

They don’t have to completely destroy your rotation if you do them wrong but you shouldn’t be able to just throw out skills whenever you want and not get punished if you do them wrong, HOC should only proc the excog if you take a certain amount of damage under clarity of corrundum, bloodwhetting and holy Shelton are even worse

[GoatOfWar]

Jobs for punish you for using your skills wrong, TBN and dissipation are literally the last examples of this phenomenon existing

They don’t have to completely destroy your rotation if you do them wrong but you shouldn’t be able to just throw out skills whenever you want and not get punished if you do them wrong, HOC should only proc the excog if you take a certain amount of damage under clarity of corrundum, bloodwhetting and holy Shelton are even worse

It just doesn't make any sense when Drk is already the lowest dps tank for it to risk a dps loss. Especially one that can take place due to external mits..
I nearly had a perfect p10s run but our machinist double mitigated and then i couldn't break TBN on the towers twice.. It's beyond infuriating whenever this happens.

[Supersnow845]

It just doesn't make any sense when Drk is already the lowest dps tank for it to risk a dps loss. Especially one that can take place due to external mits..
I nearly had a perfect p10s run but our machinist double mitigated and then i couldn't break TBN on the towers twice.. It's beyond infuriating whenever this happens.

That’s a problem with the fact that as we’ve discussed many times WAR just gets everything DRK has with no downsides, TBN is the best designed short CD, square just can’t give any downsides to WAR if you paid them

[Colt47]

That’s a problem with the fact that as we’ve discussed many times WAR just gets everything DRK has with no downsides, TBN is the best designed short CD, square just can’t give any downsides to WAR if you paid them

Actually, DRK got everything WAR got with downsides. They copy pasta'ed warrior onto DRK for who knows what reason and then made it an incoherent mess. The only reason it is playable is because if someone makes a job and its skills are literally a three hit combo and a giant blob of OGCDs, it can kind of survive on its own with a few tweaks to the potencies. But it's not the same as having an actual good rotation or method to the madness.

[Supersnow845]

Actually, DRK got everything WAR got with downsides. They copy pasta'ed warrior onto DRK for who knows what reason and then made it an incoherent mess. The only reason it is playable is because if someone makes a job and its skills are literally a three hit combo and a giant blob of OGCDs, it can kind of survive on its own with a few tweaks to the potencies. But it's not the same as having an actual good rotation or method to the madness.

Not really, bloodspiller spam is older than WAR’s current fell cleave spam (4.0 vs 4.2), DRK also used to be the gap closer tank before they decided to give WAR 4 gap closers, same as DRK being the OG life suck tank because that was also given to WAR, while being given to every tank DRK losing its niche in how powerful TBN is another example

Most of the features the two share DRK got first then they just gave a better version to WAR later

[Mayhemmer]

The only reason it is playable is because if someone makes a job and its skills are literally a three hit combo and a giant blob of OGCDs, it can kind of survive on its own with a few tweaks to the potencies. But it's not the same as having an actual good rotation or method to the madness.

It works and plays perfectly fine for me, but let's not act like DRK stands out in terms of (un-)creative job design. DRK, WAR, and PLD all suffer from that, as if somebody in charge at CBU3 is just outright horrified at the idea of doing anything whatsoever to give tanks interesting and interconnected mechanics in their kits. Nearly every job is suffering from it at this point, but those three tanks most of all. The reason I will always prefer DRK is because it, at least, doesn't put me to sleep in the middle of a duty.

[Oizen]

It works and plays perfectly fine for me, but let's not act like DRK stands out in terms of (un-)creative job design. DRK, WAR, and PLD all suffer from that, as if somebody in charge at CBU3 is just outright horrified at the idea of doing anything whatsoever to give tanks interesting and interconnected mechanics in their kits. Nearly every job is suffering from it at this point, but those three tanks most of all. The reason I will always prefer DRK is because it, at least, doesn't put me to sleep in the middle of a duty.

All of the jobs are Fell Cleave spam.
Even something like GNB which looks original on paper is just Fell Cleave spam with more steps.

Gnashing fang's combo is your 3 free Fell Cleaves
Burst Strike is just Fell Cleave to prevent overcapping
Bloodfest could also be seen as Inner Release.

Jobs for punish you for using your skills wrong, TBN and dissipation are literally the last examples of this phenomenon existing

They don’t have to completely destroy your rotation if you do them wrong but you shouldn’t be able to just throw out skills whenever you want and not get punished if you do them wrong, HOC should only proc the excog if you take a certain amount of damage under clarity of corrundum, bloodwhetting and holy Shelton are even worse

Then something has to change here, because as it stands TBN is significantly weaker than the other 3, with the only benefit being its 15s CD.
Which isn't bad, but thats the same benfit Dark Mind and Oblation have as well, weaker power with lower CD. Which also wouldn't be so bad if the job had some reasonable Sustain behind it, but it also doesn't leaving an awkward mess where Dark Knights cooldowns are just worse for no tangible upside.

[GoatOfWar]

All of the jobs are Fell Cleave spam.
Even something like GNB which looks original on paper is just Fell Cleave spam with more steps.

Gnashing fang's combo is your 3 free Fell Cleaves
Burst Strike is just Fell Cleave to prevent overcapping
Bloodfest could also be seen as Inner Release.



Then something has to change here, because as it stands TBN is significantly weaker than the other 3, with the only benefit being its 15s CD.
Which isn't bad, but thats the same benfit Dark Mind and Oblation have as well, weaker power with lower CD. Which also wouldn't be so bad if the job had some reasonable Sustain behind it, but it also doesn't leaving an awkward mess where Dark Knights cooldowns are just worse for no tangible upside.

We need to have an uncomfortable conversation as a community about powercreep first, and i don't think people (you know who) are ready for that.
Because if you buff TBN then a certain portion of the playerbase will lose their mind again in this never ending armsrace.
The alternative option is to just make Drk worse than every other tank, which seems to be the solution SE has settled for.
Because we don't have streamers representing our job spearheading internet rants, this is easier for them to deal with.