It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[ZephyrMenodora]

Indeed, it is like many different people have differing ideas and views play this game, yet for some reason when that idea conflicts with another it is no longer okay to have differing views and the only two acceptable options are to not like or don’t play. It is weird how for some reason players of an MMO rather have people either conform or leave. They should not have opinions that go against the norm because people MUST BE SEEN! Don’t like what I am wearing too bad, cause the mere possibility of people not seeing them is enough to cause anxiety. Which I get, I do have friends that feel this way, they spend hours sometimes weeks setting up a glamour even had one go to great lengths to have us help them clear ultimate, When they found out about my mod usage they legit did not log in for three weeks cause the idea of others not seeing their character legit caused them to have a panic attack. I understand this stuff is real, but at the same time communities are about compromise and sometimes that means having to give up certain freedoms. We should promote compromise instead of rage. Though I as I said many times I do understand attire and expression go hand in hand for many with acceptance, and this at the core is what makes things hard topic to approach.

That said I really do wish SE would just be more open about mods, they are not all evil. Currently working on an animation change for a friend that was a flashy version of MNK. God it is a lot harder than I thought, but I am also a newb at this. Seen some examples and the stuff people have done is nutty. Someone made a necromancer with smn as the base. Personally if people embraced mods I do think overall it would be a net positive for the community. Sure some bad apples exist but not everyone is evil.

I said earlier in the thread I am pro-mod. I honestly don't care what people do on thier own PCs in private, given I'm never going to have to see it or have anyone talk about it in official channels or in game. I think SE's "don't ask don' tell" mod policy is perfectly fine as a compromise; they likely gain some players who enjoy modding.

I've never heard of people being so sensitive that a tank in a bikini forced a player to "conform or leave" a game they otherwise wanted to play. This game is going on 10 years, longer if you count 1.0, and growing in popularity. I think you'd alienate far more people in the MMO genre then the extremely bizarre minority that "needs" this to play the game and isn't willing to mod quietly. It would be a terrible business decision in this genre and a game that prides character customization and fashion in a shared social setting as core features.

The conform argument is especially strange given they want everyone around them to confirm to their liking instead.

I'll also add that the one person in existence who has panic attacks over their glamors is just simply not a realistic benchmark to have a discussion around. I don't see the point of creating policy over such an extreme anomaly in player psychology.

[MaxCarnage]

I said earlier in the thread I am pro-mod. I honestly don't care what people do on thier own PCs in private, given I'm never going to have to see it or have anyone talk about it in official channels or in game. I think SOE's "don't ask don' tell" mod policy is perfectly fine as a compromise; they likely gain some players who enjoy modding.

I've never heard of people being so sensitive that a tank in a bikini forced a player to "confirm or leave" a game they otherwise wanted to play. This game is going on 10 years, longer if you count 1.0, and growing in popularity. I think you'd alienate far more people in the MMO genre then the extremely bizarre minority that "needs" this to play the game and isn't willing to mod quietly. It would be a terrible business decision in this genre and a game that prides character customization and fashion in a shared social setting as core features.

The conform argument is especially strange given they want everyone around them to confirm to their liking instead.

I'll also add that the one person in existence who has panic attacks over their glamors is just simply not a realistic benchmark to have a discussion around. I don't see the point of creating policy over such an extreme anomaly in player psychology.

Well, I'll start by saying even in this thread alone I have seen a large number of people opposed to this idea says things along the lines of "this is an MMO, if you can't deal with the social aspect of glamours, play a single player game" which is the same as "conform of leave", just worded differently. I believe you have also used "this is an MMO" as a reason why this feature shouldn't exist.

The conform argument is not a strange one as anyone who uses a feature such as this would only be effecting themselves. You would still be able to wear whatever you would like, and I would not see it. Other people could still see it, but if I had the toggle on, I would not. They're not the same thing. Using a toggle is not forcing anyone to do anything as it would be a client side feature. Saying people have to accept it or find a different game to play is not equivalent.

Also, in regards to the panic attack thing, again, I have seen a handful of people in this thread already mention that the mere idea of one nobody not seeing their glamour made them extremely uncomfrotable.

If you're okay with a client side mod, you should be okay with a client side feature that does virtually the same thing. You can't be for one and against the other.

[Bobby66]

I said earlier in the thread I am pro-mod. I honestly don't care what people do on thier own PCs in private, given I'm never going to have to see it or have anyone talk about it in official channels or in game. I think SOE's "don't ask don' tell" mod policy is perfectly fine as a compromise; they likely gain some players who enjoy modding.

I've never heard of people being so sensitive that a tank in a bikini forced a player to "confirm or leave" a game they otherwise wanted to play. This game is going on 10 years, longer if you count 1.0, and growing in popularity. I think you'd alienate far more people in the MMO genre then the extremely bizarre minority that "needs" this to play the game and isn't willing to mod quietly. It would be a terrible business decision in this genre and a game that prides character customization and fashion in a shared social setting as core features.

The conform argument is especially strange given they want everyone around them to confirm to their liking instead.

I'll also add that the one person in existence who has panic attacks over their glamors is just simply not a realistic benchmark to have a discussion around. I don't see the point of creating policy over such an extreme anomaly in player psychology.

In the end people in this very thread do act as if someone that does not see their character in their glamour is akin to a personal attack si maybe it is not that abnormal.

Don't ask.dont tell is such a cop out approach, but yeah it works well enough for those that are on PC. With that being said personally I have viewed FFXIV experience or primarily the goal was a more personal experience with social elements sprinkled in. I do not feel adding such an option goes against the customization aspect or expression since players are still free to do so. What it does go against is the desire to be seen. I do not think that is a core aspect of FFXIV.

With that in mind as my position I fail to see how the side in favor is forcing conformity. It is an option, we can have discussion about what would be the best means my vote is for a character swap, that way in practice I would not even see your character on my screen.

It seems weird many feel as if they are being forced something on their character, and provide options like deal with it or leave. Bring told that maybe MMo's are not for you etc ... that seems like a more conformist argument imo. Boils down to accept it or move on.

Now would it be practical or a viable use of funding? None of us work at SE so that us not fair for us to make that judgement. That is why I also feel such stances are disingenuous and are done in bad faith. They only serve to shut down the idea without even giving it a chance. Not saying one has to agree with it, I get why people do not want it. I just think using it would be a waste of time and money is just ZZZ cause we don't have that kind of say and what may be a waste to one could be a huge boon to another.

[keichirou]

Seriously? You brought this thread back up just for that

point proven , thanks for playing

[Zabuza]

I honestly don't care what people do on thier own PCs in private.

Yet you've been one of the biggest opponents of this feature being implemented. A feature that only affects what is on a person's own PC in private. Does not compute.

I can only assume the people opposing the idea stop random strangers they run into in public places to ask what they think of their fashion sense, wear chicken costumes casually or go everywhere in spotted speedoes.

What? You think that would upset/make people uncomfortable? Well, not so strange that there are players who feel uncomfortable around your atrocious skimpy or unfunny glamour now is it.

I'd love to see what these people would think if a N@zi glam existed and someone ran around on their screen with it. After all, they wouldn't be able to say anything about it since the person in that glam is just expressing themselves, right?

[Vahlnir]

In the end people in this very thread do act as if someone that does not see their character in their glamour is akin to a personal attack si maybe it is not that abnormal.

Personally, I use my glamours for my own enjoyment. Same with mounts. If someone likes what they see then that's cool, but I don't do it for other people.

[NekoMataMata]

You mean a mesh of people with differing views and opinions? Some who may not agree with your own perspective. /gasp

Oh right. You have me blocked cause you’re all for censoring what you personally don’t like. Just not for being censored yourself

Sooooo just going to ignore the issues between you and them...

But they have a slight point. It's not necessarily about differing views and opinions, as much as it sometimes genuinely feels like we all play a much different game.

What's the point in playing a game with other people when you reach the point where those people may not exist at all or those people have no agency over themselves on your screen?

A disable all glams option is perfectly fine because it's a generic blanket toggle. Mods on the other hand... well it's not quite as blanket or uniform in comparison. A self toggle for all glams around you is fair and unbiased. Mods are not so fair and unbiased. They're not inclusive and I think that's against the whole mindset of playing a MMO.

[SnowVix]

I'd love to see what these people would think if a N@zi glam existed and someone ran around on their screen with it. After all, they wouldn't be able to say anything about it since the person in that glam is just expressing themselves, right?

i mean, i feel like most of us would quit if they went and did that. i am surprised it took 85 pages at max posts per page to reach the ol' reducto ad hitlerum argument, though.

[Zabuza]

i mean, i feel like most of us would quit if they went and did that. i am surprised it took 85 pages at max posts per page to reach the ol' reducto ad hitlerum argument, though.

So you want to selectively edit what glamours appear on your screen because there are some that are distasteful to you. So you're in favor of this feature. Great!

[Joven]

I said earlier in the thread I am pro-mod. I honestly don't care what people do on thier own PCs in private, given I'm never going to have to see it or have anyone talk about it in official channels or in game. I think SOE's "don't ask don' tell" mod policy is perfectly fine as a compromise; they likely gain some players who enjoy modding.

I've never heard of people being so sensitive that a tank in a bikini forced a player to "confirm or leave" a game they otherwise wanted to play. This game is going on 10 years, longer if you count 1.0, and growing in popularity. I think you'd alienate far more people in the MMO genre then the extremely bizarre minority that "needs" this to play the game and isn't willing to mod quietly. It would be a terrible business decision in this genre and a game that prides character customization and fashion in a shared social setting as core features.

The conform argument is especially strange given they want everyone around them to confirm to their liking instead.

I'll also add that the one person in existence who has panic attacks over their glamors is just simply not a realistic benchmark to have a discussion around. I don't see the point of creating policy over such an extreme anomaly in player psychology.

So you're for a feature that can get someone permanently banned for doing something that doesn't affect you in any way, but are against a feature that wouldn't get a person permanently banned for doing something that doesn't affect you in any way? That's an incredibly weird take.

And speaking of anomalous player psychology: are we just going to overlook those who feel like they must be seen by everyone otherwise they can't enjoy the game?

point proven , thanks for playing

There was no point to prove.