Ban Dragoon and DRK from Frontline or At least Nerf Drg's LB

[Mistress_Irika]

Dragoon and Ninja being cried over last expansion. Despite an overhaul nothing has changed lol. With the amount of complaining that's being done over certain starts that pops up it's only a matter of time before premades gets removed entirely.

Dragoon is fine as is. There are other things I am more concerned about like Monk and Ninja limit breaks locking me out of Recuperate 2 seconds before I die. Just saying.

[Dionysius]

Is this combo an exploit? No. Is it fair? Kind of? Like I said, it can be countered and played around.

Is this combo an exploit? Yes.
DRG's 5 yalm 30.000 LB potency was never intended to hit that many people, their 10 yalm 20.000 LB potency makes more sense. This is where DRK comes in that can pull everyone into the 5 yalm zone and with rng in play around 24 people, there will be always casualties no matter how well you try to tell people to gitgud.
Just a simple question, why other jobs can only deal around 18.000 but DRG allow for up to 30.000?

Is it fair? Yes, it can be countered just by playing DRG yourself. But that'd essentially asking people just to play these 2 jobs.

Trust me if you met this group in my DC, there is no strategy for countering them with the random groups that you got into.
You will just become fodders for them and waiting to lose, then came back here and tell me, yeah they need to nerf DRG.

Bro I guarantee you, if the west had the culture of following the leader and their burst macros the same people shitting on you right now would actually agree with you. lmao

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Is this combo an exploit? Yes.
DRG's 5 yalm 30.000 LB potency was never intended to hit that many people, their 10 yalm 20.000 LB potency makes more sense. This is where DRK comes in that can pull everyone into the 5 yalm zone and with rng in play around 24 people, there will be always casualties no matter how well you try to tell people to gitgud.
Just a simple question, why other jobs can only deal around 18.000 but DRG allow for up to 30.000?

Is it fair? Yes, it can be countered just by playing DRG yourself. But that'd essentially asking people just to play these 2 jobs.

Trust me if you met this group in my DC, there is no strategy for countering them with the random groups that you got into.
You will just become fodders for them and waiting to lose, then came back here and tell me, yeah they need to nerf DRG.

Sorry for the pet peeve, but DRG LB is "not" 30,000 in Frontline in 5y radius. It is 21000 vs ranged, 12000 vs melee. Even with Geirskogul up that is 26500 for ranged, 15000 vs melee. Only combining Geirskogul with Battle High 5 or other buffs in your party (Astrologian LB or Balance card, Bard Apex + Blast Arrow) does the amount actually reach obscene levels of 40,000+ vs ranged and 25,000+ vs melee.

At the point where you are engaging into a team with Battle High 5 stacked to every rank and order you may need to think about bringing Paladins for Phalanx, Sages for Mesotes or other possible defensives and hold Guard for such onslaughts.

I don't like how it currently works either and I personally still think that Limit Break should NOT charge outside of combat, let alone from doing nothing while in combat, but we gotta deal with it. They will never ever exclude specific jobs from playing their game. At most, they can shift around the damage and mitigation scaling from large-scale pvp.

[Guts-BSM]

stay mad

[Dionysius]

Sorry for the pet peeve, but DRG LB is "not" 30,000 in Frontline in 5y radius. It is 21000 vs ranged, 12000 vs melee. Even with Geirskogul up that is 26500 for ranged, 15000 vs melee. Only combining Geirskogul with Battle High 5 or other buffs in your party (Astrologian LB or Balance card, Bard Apex + Blast Arrow) does the amount actually reach obscene levels of 40,000+ vs ranged and 25,000+ vs melee.

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

[Ransu]

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

Because LB's function differently for each job... I've gotten 10+ kills from SAM LB which does 24k potency on its own and one shots anyone with the debuff, chain killed people with nin LB, gotten mass kill feeds with smn LB etc... DRG isn't unique in its ability to gank a bunch of people in FL with its LB.

Again, its FL, who the hell cares about balance there?

[Nanne]

I didn't went into the nitty gritty of - dmg taken because I was comparing the pure potency with other jobs.
Not one person come up with the reason of almost twice dmg from DRG lb vs other jobs, this keeps derailing to other subjects.

Because it is one of the LB's that is probably one of the easier ones to avoid or to prepare against? You can press Guard against it or you can even just run away because it takes some time before they can manually land the LB early. And yes I know there are skills that can stop Guard but that is irrelevant DRG LB excels in being used after people waste their Guards or if you set it up as a team

[Mistress_Irika]

I'd rather deal with Paladin's Cover than this cheap abuse of using countdown to land everything at the same time and delete the other teams.

Regardless whether I'm with the GC that abuse this cheap trick or against them, both experience are awful and upsetting so many people that participate in this mode.

I'm going to be irrelevant really quick and say that it has gotten easier to pressure yet stricter to burst. It's just an observe opinion though.

Let's gets to your post. I had to reread everything to make sure that I had full understanding. I have to disagree with the countdown thing being cheap. It's there to help up pvpers with bursting. Bursting is a basic necessity for finishing the high end raids from my perspective (saying perspective since I've never raised before). It's also a basic necessity if you wanted easier matches for Crystal Conflict. Without the burst phases raiders would probably wipe to enrage, and you would have zerg matches in frontlines.

As someone pointed out you would not be seeing that much if limit breaks weren't charging outside of combat. However, most asked for pvp to be easier, fun, and more attractive. This is just part of the result that we're getting.

A lot of people probably rely on DRG because of how their limit break works. With that said, I dont know why dark knights are being targetted. Sure, they have an ability that forces the other team to stack on each other. However, other classes can abuse this as well. Warriors and their AOE stun. Dancer and their limit break. Gunbreaker, and their limit break. I'm not even going to comment on summoner lol. I know they're a lot deadlier than just throwing an LB out there from afar. Hopefully you get my point.

[Middie]

This is from another thread, but I still think it's valid.

"Frontlines seems to be defined by the DRK tactic, at least on OCE, and I don't see that as exactly healthy PVP balance that there is such a dominant tactic."

Currently, at least to me, the DRK tactic is so dominant, it defines how you play FL. Follow the DRK, support the DRK, that's how you increase you chances to win games.

[Elfidan]

If you get caught in a puddle every time and not as a one off, you aren't paying attention. I can understand the grievance with the drg lb as you can't really tell if its friend of foe in the chaos of a skirmish, but if anything salted earth is a joke. It shouldn't be a puddle, but a circle centered on the DRK that moves with them. Do you even know how many people willingly stand in that puddle or even stick around long enough to get bound? Outside of FL not many.

At the end of the day FL is just lemmings 3d and should be treated as such. Get your bonus get your kicks and get out.