Results 1 to 10 of 9558

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    Teraq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Amaurot
    Posts
    275
    Character
    Teraq Moks
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoHikari View Post
    But the underlying reasons for that didn't begin with Endwalker - and I'm about to say something that's probably going to be really controversial in these parts, considering the whole 'Shadowbringers good, Endwalker bad' angle that some posters are arguing in this thread.

    For all the praise Shadowbringers gets, people don't seem to recognize that the storytelling in Endwalker is 100% a direct consequence of the drastic shift in storytelling that began with Shadowbringers.

    Namely, the COMPLETE shift from the main antagonists being the Garlean Empire (with some Ascian stuff sprinkled throughout) which was built up for all of level 1-70, to the whole Ancient stuff for levels 70-80, which ultimately ended with Garlemald being destroyed off-screen with zero input from the main cast, with the entire plot being completely hijacked by the Ancients (and Zenos being dragged along for the ride).
    (good post snip)
    I suppose I should bear some responsibility for the latest outburst of "MAN I MISS SHB!", though I must note that I only ever brought up its nuance on both sides of the main conflict compared to Endwalker's falling down yet another branch from the manichaean tree, not how award-worthy its story is in general (it isn't). Completely agree that the Garlemald storyline was shafted – 5.0 marked the moment when I became truly sick of Zenos as opposed to just "oh he's still alive I guess hmmmm ok", because I thought the Garlean/Ilsabardian politics in post-Stormblood had such potential, Varis had only just stepped into the limelight at long last! It's a shame this setting keeps coming up with good ideas and never really delivers on what they've built up.

    They made such a rush job of both the Garlemald plot and the Ascian plot. And I mean Ascians that aren't named Emet-Selch.

    They apparently rushed because they wanted to capitalize on the ShB momentum, and for what? They only had their writing "residential" for 7.0 this summer. So they… clumsily threw away their most compelling stories for a new plot they hadn't even defined yet? And so far I can't say it's been worth it, judging by the MSQ.

    (By the way, you can write everything in a single long post by editing it to bypass the character limit. Just write everything you want to write, then cut enough to get the forums to accept your post, then edit it and paste what you just cut. I wouldn't be able to live without this ONE SIMPLE TRICK. Doctors hate her!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoHikari View Post
    And there were signs (and I don't recall if this was outright stated by the writers themselves, I distinctly remember something to this effect being mentioned at one point) that the writers actually weren't really sure how they wanted to wrap up the story in Endwalker until halfway through Shadowbringers too.
    Yeah, I remember interviews around 5.3 saying they had basically been writing post-ShB things by the seat of the pants. They just knew they wanted the 5.3 fight to be Elidibus – but not really how. It shows. They had no idea what to do with the longest-standing antagonist of the H/Z arc and it shows.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brinne View Post
    Prior discussion has gone over every one of Venat's weird, thin, unconvincing excuses ad nauseum (what is the Echo? We just don't know), but what it comes down to is: once again, Venat agrees with the premise of Hermes's test and wants to see it carried out. She fundamentally chose to say nothing because she wanted to see mankind take on Meteion's challenge and prove her wrong. Proving that Meteion was wrong about the worth of Life as a universal concept is, to Venat, worth burning up trillions of individual lives. The second she says "we must prove ourselves equal to Hermes's test and prove man is worthy to exist," everything else is just mealy-mouthed spice on top because somewhere, deep down, both she and the writers know that it sounds really bad to flat out say "I think the Ancients should be hit with the Final Days actually" and spread a layer of very thin plausible deniability (of course, a good person would prioritize saving lives, and we want you to see Venat as a good person so mumblemumble) around it.
    At its very core, Endwalker's story hinges on rejecting the notion, implied by Shadowbringers, that both sides were equal and had an equally good enough reason to fight: simply wanting to survive and exist, and fighting for that right. Both sides were people fighting for their loved ones – and it didn't matter how much better the world unsundered was or wasn't. The scenes immediately before and after the Amaurot dungeon are still IMO the most intense of Final Fantasy XIV. The humanization of the Ancients did so much heavy lifting for Shadowbringers's emotional impact, it is still inconceivable to me that they chose to go with a sequel that not only fundamentally downplays it, but pulls out a bunch of emotionally manipulative tricks to try and convince me to get on board with it. To throw away such a raw and gray conflict for a cliché as tired as "highly advanced precursor race brought down by their hubris – plucky little human so much better precisely because they aren't perfect" is almost offensive to me. Endwalker functions on the assumption that the sides of the conflict were not, in fact, equal, because the Ancients were fundamentally flawed – both morally and biologically – and this makes them deserving of their fate.

    Oh, sure, it plays coy about it. We get to watch how much Venat suffers from the suffering she inflicts on everyone else but herself. We get to hear her make convoluted excuses for why her hands were SO TOTALLY TIED SHE DID THE ONLY THING SHE COULD!!!!. We get to see Hermes hermesing all over the place, which amounts to the game waving a giant "THE ANCIENTS WERE SO CALLOUS AND UNCARING AND UNFEELING" sign all throughout Elpis and wordlessly mouthing "DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S A LITTLE F'ED UP?" at us. The game both wants to play it up as a horrible tragedy for everyone involved which Venat had no choice but to follow through, while also having her take Hermes far more seriously than he deserves and uphold his stupid "test" wholeheartedly – and the rest of the story makes it unambiguous we are supposed to think she is right for it, for thinking her people unworthy of existing after having put them in a horrible situation through her own actions and selective inaction. Much like Schrodinger's Venat strives to avert the Final Days at the same time as she is making sure the time loop happens, you can't really have the plot try to take the Shadowbringers route of "omg they were all justified/right/wrong in their own right, it's so tragic!!!" while telling you out of the side of its mouth that one side was correct while the other had no future and were doomed to their shallow paradise (an assertion that is very debatable to begin with).

    And worst of all: Venat gets no opposition in the narrative. Whatever balance ShB might have had in how it presented its core conflict is gone. By the time the full story is revealed in all its stupidity, Lahabrea and Elidibus are dead, and I'm not sure how to call the abomination we summon at the end of Ultima Thule, making excuses for a person that made him and his brethren into villains, suffering in solitude for twelve thousand years and ending up being killed by their close friend whom said person groomed into that role. That's okay, look at him blaming himself for being hit by Hermes's retcon beam and not… figuring it out by himself… somehow?… and that's his fault?? I guess????????

    We are all dumber for experiencing Endwalker.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Congratulations, that's not what they were trying to do. At all. They were trying to undo the Sundering, which was not an act of creation, but an act of malformation.
    It is also worth repeating – again – that the Convocation's original plan as we know it did not go beyond the third sacrifice, which explicitly would not wipe out all the wildlife/totally sapient humanoids/ANCIENT BABIES(?!?!). It is only in Endwalker that we are introduced to the slippery slope fallacy of "THEY WOULD HAVE SACRIFICED ALL FUTURE LIFE TO BRING BACK THE PAST!!!!" via a shoddily written parallel to strawman aliens and an atrocious scene with no basis in reality according to known backstory that can only be described as Venat suffering from a rapid-fire sequence of self-aggrandizing hallucinations. It's fine, though, there's emotional music playing in the background so everyone cried. She loved mankind (You™ in particular, though) so much, she had TRULY NO OTHER CHOICES!

    The Convocation's goal is what it has always been: being the keepers of the planet which, from the Unsundered's POV, has been broken beyond recognition – hence, they are fixing it (they had TRULY NO OTHER CHOICES, tbh!). I'm not sure at which point this entails wiping out all of creation. On the Shards, perhaps? Yes, but hey, blame Venat for that one; she's the one who committed to a time loop that would annihilate at least 7 of them, and never cared enough to save them from the apocalypse.


    Quote Originally Posted by DevonEllwood View Post
    Is this really the hill you want to die on?
    I'd say mods are asleep at the wheel but that would imply they were even driving at some point. This bad faith caricature has been allowed to post since June in spite of multiple reports. Says a lot about how little SE cares, and how childish someone on the white knight side is.
    (9)
    Last edited by Teraq; 01-15-2023 at 07:11 AM. Reason: I didn't emphasize enough how little sense UT Emet made

  2. #2
    Player
    Brinne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    498
    Character
    Raelle Brinn
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Teraq View Post
    At its very core, Endwalker's story hinges on rejecting the notion, implied by Shadowbringers, that both sides were equal and had an equally good enough reason to fight: simply wanting to survive and exist, and fighting for that right. Both sides were people fighting for their loved ones – and it didn't matter how much better the world unsundered was or wasn't.
    Still medication-posting, against my better judgment, for some reason.

    (Also, obligatory side declaration of being That Person who not only thinks Endwalker Zenos ruled and was perfectly written, but thinks Garlemald's general fate was narratively appropropriate and while it could have used more screentime and time to breathe, a dedicated Garlemald expansion almost certainly wouldn't have fixed Endwalker's issues.)

    Yeah, this basically hits on what made Shadowbringers both touching and compelling. Again, what came after is ultimately the result, I think, of the devs sitting down and deciding their priority for Endwalker was to deliver a message from Them, The Developers, to Us, The Players - rather than concentrating on their lore and worldbuilding as, well, a living and breathing world that encourages empathy in an outward direction, towards the representations of others who aren't us. Endwalker is almost breathtakingly inward-directed. In this way, when considering a global pandemic that caused a lot of widespread depression, the devs thought that "is life even worth living?" was one they wanted to tackle head on and answer with a clear, affirmative YES - for our sakes, the sakes of the ones sitting in their gaming chairs - rather than "the question is inherently invalid," which is the approach Shadowbringers took because Shadowbringers focused on the human elements of the in-universe characters.

    In this way, Venat's speech on the bridge where she starts talking about feeling a "presence without" - that she thinks God is talking to her, more or less - ends up being true! The devs' voices are directly in her ear, guiding her actions from the priorities of a different reality altogether, rather than adhering to the logic of the one Venat actually resides in. This is why she had to Sunder, leading ultimately to the game we play. This is why she had to accept the challenge of the question and the "test" - to deliver that direct, affirmative YES to us, rather than possibly sidestepping the question and saving billions of lives around her.

    From that perspective, the "good intentions" make sense. Unfortunately, though, for those who do care about and primarily see things from a worldbuilding, in-universe perspective for the story, a different message entirely gets created, because anything in a game would be expendable compared to that theme delivered to us humans on Earth, right? But when you take people not in the player in-group as people (as they were presented as of one (1) expansion prior), rather than simple thematic devices that exist for our sake, you form an extremely unfortunate contrapositive where there also exists a negative answer - THEY failed the test to prove they were "worthy to exist," unlike US/YOU. A failure state to the question of "are you worthy to exist" is created, and then worse, illustrated. And it's done so by suggesting problems of individual weakness, or even more unfortunately, sometimes, inherent racial or cultural problems on such a broad scale that it ends up providing grounds for the writing off of and subsequent mass murder of billions - to pave the way for people (us!!!) who will be worthy by contrast.

    And not universally, but I suspect several depressed or struggling people are inclined to see the crafted existence of a failure state as "I would obviously be someone vulnerable to that failure state" and relate to its illustrations moreso than the heroes. People who bought into Shadowbringers's "humanize and validate everyone" approach would be thrown by "wait, since when is it okay to write off entire swaths of people as inherently unworthy to live, or by unideal emotional responses be 'shown' to be unworthy? That's really messed up?" And some weird people (hello) are generally brainbroken and tend to be inherently suspicious of the heroic fantasy tendency (and extremely ugly historical tendency) to otherize and invalidate people who don't belong in the POV characters' in-groups.

    For Endwalker, well, it's a video game! They were never alive. They're just symbolic generalities. They're a vehicle to deliver that heartwarming, affirmative message to YOU! Don't worry about it! Their failure state could never apply to YOU! Even the people who failed to answer YES to the question are now rallying behind YOU and are happy that even if they couldn't, YOU are the one who gets the affirmation! And YOU are so great in being capable of answering YES to the question that you can even inspire and uplifts the others who couldn't do it for themselves! Happy ending for everyone.

    I mean, I can see the good intent, but from my perspective - yeah, and my own values and ideology - that question will never ring true except as an excuse, intended or no, malicious or benevolent, even if born more from thoughtlessness than anything targeted - to create that contrapositive and the possibility of the failure state. Endwalker, in this regard, is wrong. Nobody is unworthy of existing. Nobody has to justify themselves. Nobody has to prove that it's okay for them to live. Nobody has the right to cut someone's life short or declare them dead ends, just because of a belief that they're heading towards a nebulous "bad outcome." Sometimes, in the broader world, decisions do have to be made - allocations of limited resources, or harm reduction, what have you - but Endwalker was completely uninterested in engaging with or trying to convince anyone who thinks that question being framed as a yes/no is ugly and invalid from the very beginning. It, well. It sure knew what it wanted to say, I suppose.
    (18)
    Last edited by Brinne; 01-15-2023 at 07:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Fiel_Tana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    165
    Character
    F'iel Tana
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Brinne View Post
    And not universally, but I suspect several depressed people are inclined to see the crafted existence of a failure state as "I would obviously be someone vulnerable to that failure state" and relate to its illustrations moreso than the heroes. People who bought into Shadowbringers's "humanize and validate everyone" approach would be thrown by "wait, since when is it okay to write off entire swaths of people as inherently unworthy to live, or by unideal emotional responses be 'shown' to be unworthy? That's really messed up?" And some weird people (hello) are generally brainbroken and tend to be inherently suspicious of the heroic fantasy tendency (and extremely ugly historical tendency) to otherize and invalidate people who don't belong in the POV characters' in-groups.

    For Endwalker, well, it's a video game! They were never alive. They're just symbolic generalities. They're a vehicle to deliver that heartwarming, affirmative message to YOU! Don't worry about it! Their failure state could never apply to YOU! Even the people who failed to answer YES to the question are now rallying behind YOU and are happy that even if they couldn't, YOU are the one who gets the affirmation! And YOU are so great in being capable of answering YES to the question that you can even inspire and uplifts the others who couldn't do it for themselves! Happy ending for everyone.
    Thank you for writing this!

    Yes! That was my experience of it. Was so hyped to play EW, looked forward to it for ages since FFXIV had become where I went to try to mend my brain, a place to relax, be social, think and be able to get away from thinking when needed, and be a bit happier. Endwalker hit me HARD and I spiralled badly back into a depression I was already struggling to get out of.

    The question "Is life worth it?" being answered with "if you're the right type of person, with only acceptable emotions (absolutely NO sadness or fear!), in with the right crowd, in the right time and place. If not, then no, you're just not strong enough or what we consider worthy". Damn!

    Not the message they wanted to send, but that's how it was received by me during play through. Add to it the gaslighting ("they deserved it", "there was no other way", "suffering is beautiful", "it hurt mommy more. Think of her pain!" etc.) and I spent literally months trying to crawl back out from under the dark storm cloud in my head.

    I know that's not what the writers intended, EW was meant to be uplifting (others seemed to feel it was?), but for me, it was the direct opposite.
    (14)

  4. #4
    Player
    ReynTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,677
    Character
    Princess Walk
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiel_Tana View Post
    Thank you for writing this!

    Yes! That was my experience of it. Was so hyped to play EW, looked forward to it for ages since FFXIV had become where I went to try to mend my brain, a place to relax, be social, think and be able to get away from thinking when needed, and be a bit happier. Endwalker hit me HARD and I spiralled badly back into a depression I was already struggling to get out of.

    The question "Is life worth it?" being answered with "if you're the right type of person, with only acceptable emotions (absolutely NO sadness or fear!), in with the right crowd, in the right time and place. If not, then no, you're just not strong enough or what we consider worthy". Damn!

    Not the message they wanted to send, but that's how it was received by me during play through. Add to it the gaslighting ("they deserved it", "there was no other way", "suffering is beautiful", "it hurt mommy more. Think of her pain!" etc.) and I spent literally months trying to crawl back out from under the dark storm cloud in my head.

    I know that's not what the writers intended, EW was meant to be uplifting (others seemed to feel it was?), but for me, it was the direct opposite.
    It's unfortunate you were affected that way by it. I can definitely see people's point when put that way. I'm surprised how easily the bizarre message is brushed off by content creators and streamers to this day. Though I've seen some people comment something similar on reddit lately.

    I suffer from depression myself but tbh I ended not being affected emotionally at all by EW because the moment Meteion started her report I just thought "Oh no. They're going full pretentious and focus on the question of the meaning of life to make simpletons think Endwalker's writing is deep, aren't they...?" and it was like all the remaining channels of immersion with the MSQ shattered right there, and I was just continuing to make fun of MSQ with friends from there on.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoHikari View Post
    My guess? We're told a lot about Ul'dah/Gridania/Limsa, but the game doesn't really show us much about them from an organizational level. Even the individual Grand Companies might as well be completely indistinguishable in regards to your membership within them, though you used to be completely locked to whichever faction you joined in PvP until the devs realized that it was a pretty bad idea as far as faction-based PvP matching went. We know way, WAY more about the Ascians and the Legati more than the high ranking members of each Grand Company aside from the leaders, for instance. This disconnect is arguably part of why something like the whole Chasing Ivy arc in ARR was a bit hollow - you're just told that the Alliance is trying to root out a spy, and you don't get to do anything in regards to that until you're asked to confront her at the last moment. Then she escapes once, gets caught again, and her existence is completely forgotten after that (though we should have had a chance to question Emperor Varis about her, or he should have mentioned her capture, considering he's the one that planted/reached her within the Immortal Flames to begin with). Even the Garleans don't really seem to address any differences between the Grand Companies either - Emperor Varis is literally the only Garlean in the entire game that seemingly cares about the differences between the Eorzean city-states.

    It's also important to note that we also see a lot of the societal flaws within those three city-states, while we only distantly observe them at best when it comes to Amaurot and Garlemald, because both end up getting destroyed before we get to witness their flaws for ourselves.

    I'd say people would actually care a lot more about Ul'dah/Limsa/Gridania if we were actually more involved in the Grand Companies that we're supposed to be members of. For years, I had been kicking around an idea about how Squadrons and the entire GC ranking system should be completely overhauled into a serious Final Fantasy Tactics-like minigame where you lead your entire Squadron into lore-relevant missions, complete with involved questlines that differ depending on your choice of Grand Company enlistment (although you'd get invitations to assist the other Grand Companies later). For example, if you were a part of the Malestrom, you'd get to see how diplomacy works between the pirates that you keep hearing so much about, and raid Garlean ships and deal with stuff like Sirens out at sea. Twin Adders could deal with stuff like cultists and expeditions into the West Shroud. Immortal Flames could go into corruption and dealing with cultists on their side of the border.

    At the same time, some Garleans could stand to address your GC rank more - some extra world building flavor to add weight to your own threat level beyond just a simple adventurer that happens to be allied with Eorzea and kicking everyone's asses for breakfast.
    This reminds me.

    While everyone has always seemed to be just looking forward to new nations (which are all going to be glaringly obvious FFXIV versions of real world non-european nations for social media buzz sake) I always wished they would just add more side-stories with quest chains related to each starting nation's internal struggles more. Without Ascian or Hydaelin nonsense hijacking it. Get Matsuno to write those, while the rest of the Walt Disney tier stories that seem to be more popular with the stans can go on without interference.
    There is so much lore and so many plot points they haven't done anything with in the 3 nations. And when they do, they seem to shit all over the potential (The Sil'dihn Subterrane storyline). Seriously, leave that kind of thing to Matsuno or some writer that isn't afraid of making more mature scripts.
    (9)
    Last edited by ReynTime; 01-16-2023 at 04:07 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    SaitoHikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,281
    Character
    Saito Hikari
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ReynTime View Post
    While everyone has always seemed to be just looking forward to new nations (which are all going to be glaringly obvious FFXIV versions of real world non-european nations for social media buzz sake) I always wished they would just add more side-stories with quest chains related to each starting nation's internal struggles more. Without Ascian or Hydaelin nonsense hijacking it. Get Matsuno to write those, while the rest of the Walt Disney tier stories that seem to be more popular with the stans can go on without interference.
    There is so much lore and so many plot points they haven't done anything with in the 3 nations. And when they do, they seem to shit all over the potential (The Sil'dihn Subterrane storyline). Seriously, leave that kind of thing to Matsuno or some writer that isn't afraid of making more mature scripts.
    My guess? The game's writing had gone through a drastic shift in direction when the Heavensward crew left to work on FFXVI. That was when plot points started getting dropped left and right in favor of emotional spectacle, which of course gets a lot more very vocal stans from the JRPG crowd, compared to something like Matsuno's works which are generally far more appreciated by people who actually play other things outside of JRPGs or MMOs. You can even see signs of this in the discourse in the Lore forum - I had been away for 3 years and only recently returned to find that the lore section has devolved into personal arguments rather than the deep analysis that used to be far more common, because the recent presentation of XIV's story has emphasized us having to take everything at face value. (It's also worth considering that JRPG writing in recent times is rather abysmal, especially considering that the Trails series which was previously the closest thing to matching XIV's emphasis on world building went completely off the rails and became just another generic JRPG series in the end. People who play exclusively JRPGs tend to have low standards in regards to writing by default, considering so many rely on emotional impact at the expense of literally everything else - it also doesn't help that this particular crowd seems like the major culprit behind the negative reception that may have chased Matsuno off from any further involvement in XIV.)

    What many stans fail to realize is that the only reason XIV is a step above your typical JRPG is because it built up the lore and context to give the big twists their major emotional impact later. It's why all the statements about how ARR is trash is misguided at best. The only thing wrong about ARR is the presentation - it could go through a quality pass to make it more in line with the rest of the game. But once again, my major issue with Endwalker is how the Garlemald arc basically ended as an off-screen sacrifice in favor of the Ancients completely hijacking the entire story last minute. It's probably the single biggest disappointment from a writing standpoint I've encountered in all of gaming thus far, and it gives me incredibly irrational hatred for Zenos and Fandango asshole especially.

    Since XVI's development is wrapping up, maybe the Heavensward writers will come back in time to rein everything in for the next major story arc. Maybe a lot of the older lore hasn't been expanded on simply because the previous writers were absent working on XVI instead. (And hopefully Ishikawa goes on to work on FFXVII instead, or she stays lead writer for XIV for the entire next big story arc. I don't mean to belittle her work, but there's a massive tonal difference between her writing and literally everything else in the game, and having her take over the lead writer position mid-way clearly resulted in a massive whiplash between pre-ShB and post-ShB, to the point where it looks like a lot of plot points from pre-ShB were sacrificed for the sake of the accelerated spectacle that Endwalker ended up becoming. I'd like to see what she does when she's not constrained by previously established lore.)

    Sadly, I wonder if it's too late for my idea in particular. My idea would have been far more relevant back in Stormblood, when the Garleans and the whole Primal stuff were still in play. Since both are now out of the picture with Endwalker, there's much less around to give context to the necessity of the Grand Companies. Supposedly there's a Squadron/Grand Company rework that was being mentioned early on in the EW patch cycle, so who knows.

    Also regarding my earlier point about Roaille, her being the Ivy was not much of a reveal at all because we hardly talked to her to begin with. Same for stuff like how Mistbeard is basically a title. Again, we literally don't get to know anyone in the Grand Companies aside from their leaders, outside of a few sidequests here and there. The entire Bard questline in general is probably the only real look we have in regards to the operational structure of the Twin Adders for instance.
    (9)
    Last edited by SaitoHikari; 01-16-2023 at 06:24 AM.
    "Consider this old adage: When a Bard sings alone in a desert, and no one is around to hear him... Is he truly singing?"

  6. #6
    Player
    MikkoAkure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,212
    Character
    Midi Ajihri
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SaitoHikari View Post
    My guess? The game's writing had gone through a drastic shift in direction when the Heavensward crew left to work on FFXVI.
    Ishikawa isn't the only writer so I don't understand why people feel the need to pin everything on her.

    Banri Oda was on the writing credit alongside Maehiro from ARR through 3.0 which was Maehiro's last writing credit, and continued to be on it from 3.1-now alongside Ishikawa. Ishikawa was main scenario writer in 3.2, 3.4, and all of SB and ShB (Oda and Ishikawa shared this title for both expansions) so I don't know why your cutoff is pre-ShB and post-ShB. Yoshi-P has had full and direct oversight in how the game is run and the story points since the beginning. Maehiro leaving after 3.0 to XVI doesn't immediately make the game change in tone since he wasn't writing every last story and he was working alongside Banri Oda and Yoshi-P the whole time anyway. Plus, most of the lore originates from Oda himself and not the other writers and he's still here.

    As I said in the other thread going on for Endwalker's story, HW's tone is different because Yoshi-P specifically called for it to be written as "dark fantasy". Knowing this, you can look at ARR/ShB and see how they were written specifically in the sub-genre "heroic fantasy", SB is clearly a war story, and EW is a mix of them all with a dash of sci-fi.


    Matsuno wasn't "chased off" by negative reception by the English lore forums or people who like JRPGs, it was received negatively in Japan but they didn't go much more into it. Yoshi-P and Matsuno even had an interview last year or the year before after Bozja to talk about it and possible post-Bozja plans but people seem to ignore it for the "drama".


    Garlemald being nuked off-screen by their own hand is partly a consequence of the 1.0 writers making them too strong imo. Other than deus ex machina there's not really a chance for Eorzea's military to do more than just defend when they have magic, bows and arrows, swords, and muskets against a fully mechanized and modern military with magitek. Even Ghimlyt Dark required WoL to show up.

    The other reason Garlemald is what it is, is because in an interview Yoshi-P said that if we went in guns blazing, we'd just continue to see Garlemald and the Garleans as faceless mooks to kill instead of the average people and their stories and that had an effect on the state of the zone.


    If you want someone to blame for "emotional spectacle" you might want to look at the creative director more than anyone else.
    (8)

  7. #7
    Player
    Graeham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    We are from the Garlemalding
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Graeham Graisse
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 87
    Quote Originally Posted by MikkoAkure View Post
    Ishikawa isn't the only writer so I don't understand why people feel the need to pin everything on her.
    No Neko. You must think of the strategy. Is why guild is leader of the forum.

    Guild is want to bring the course correct to bring back the No Shadow God. Ikawa is popular writer but has kill No Shadow God. So to change course must fire and punish the Ikawa. English and Japanese translated script say wrong thing like the Venar is not cause of all evil in universe. Must fire English and Japanese translator team so only German script is use in game. This is way that all know Venar is evil. By remove the strong general of the Yoshi island will only have writer who is scared of guild and obey the forum. We do not care about the Matsumo or the Myhero and other retire Heavenwart writer but the name drop it make it look like we do. Remembering the dark chocolate fantasy of the Heavenwart? We do not but it is better writer this lmao. Give us the new writer and keep fire until story is what we want.

    Garlemalding hit by the nuke off the screen it like the burning of Teldrassil. We do not know how two are related but FF chara think story better than the WoW so when story can be compare mean it is bad. Top secret file it show that evil writer they try to make the Endwalking in the last hour of the summer band camp but it fail. Original German script it having two expansion not one. First expansion was the Garlemalding tower climb. Second expansion the No Shadow God kill all the chara and destroy game. Is why it is call Endwalker because is no more expansion. Only No Shadow God. Script it still exist but it is hidden on the Yoshi island. And Ikawa was force to rush write script as only one. By attack writer can bring back top secret German script to have No Shadow God kill all chara and win war.

    Do not feel sad Neko. We teach you truth of game we see on the reddit interview.
    (1)

    ~You may defeat us but our principal is in violet. Indivisible.~
    ~God King Solus and the Princess Svelte Lana~

  8. #8
    Player
    Graeham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2022
    Location
    We are from the Garlemalding
    Posts
    166
    Character
    Graeham Graisse
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 87
    Quote Originally Posted by ReynTime View Post
    the moment Meteion started her report I just thought "Oh no. They're going full pretentious and focus on the question of the meaning of life to make simpletons think Endwalker's writing is deep, aren't they...?" and it was like all the remaining channels of immersion with the MSQ shattered right there, and I was just continuing to make fun of MSQ with friends from there on.
    Ahahaha yes we remember this. God Meteo say I am so sad that I can not eating the candy apple but I watch the Hermes eat and we turning to the Ayyybeyond and the Madge King and the Tariq and the Hildabrant brother and we can not stopping the laughing. Real traditional masculine story it not cry that can not eat delicious candy apple it hit the apple with the fist. Famous Game of the Throne writer Myhiro would be doing the apple smackdown. The mocking of the game it form the bond of the year to come. Real MSQ treasure are the fiends that are making on the way.
    (1)

    ~You may defeat us but our principal is in violet. Indivisible.~
    ~God King Solus and the Princess Svelte Lana~