PLD changes

[Gserpent]

Jeez I was hoping it wouldn't be 'Req, 3 Holy Spirits and a not-Primal Rend' but there it is, Req, 4 HS and a Confiteor-rend (no longer tied to a Req stack, for the players who couldn't count to 4), Goring Blade becomes Sonic Break, wait am I reading this right, that Req windows will be just 1 HS, and the other 3 stacks are used on Blades? I'm too tired for this but my initial read is 'pretty much what I expected of SE at this point'

I'm not sure where blades figures into this, but you definitely need to use it during Req since their potency is garbage outside of it. Exclusivity of Divine Might and Req makes it clear that you will *not* be doing a filler combo until *after* you finish Req. So it will presumably be FoF and Req, while weaving Goring Blade, Spirits, and Circle.

Neither Req nor Confetti say that one or the other ends Req, so I'm assuming then that Confetti doesn't end Req, but only consumes a charge. Req specifies that Confetti "combo actions" will be boosted by the effect, so it's fair to assume the three Blades spells will each take a stack.

This means that Req will be used *exclusively* for Confetti combo at level 90, and the only reason snowflake and circle are mentioned is for not-90 content. It's literally just Inner Release with more oGCDs to weave. Pretty much what we expected.

Why is Atonement so weak? It's only 30 more potency than an unbuffed, no Divine Might Holy Spirit. It looks like it's going to even be barely a PPS gain to use it.

Atonement is now effectively a complete replacement for our old Goring combo. It's 380+380+380 (1140) instead of 200+280+380 (860). But the problem is that the combo gives you a Divine Might charge, which adds an extra 450 to the end at the cost of it being a 4th GCD...

I dunno. Atonement definitely feels like it needs a potency bump. Otherwise, any time you could fit four GCDs, you'd just do the Authority combo even if you have Sword Oath stacks on hand... Not to mention, Divine Might is also giving us the 400 potency cure every 4th GCD, which is presumably meant to finally give proper compensation to PLD for lacking a cure on their filler combo.

[Darkstride]

Jeez I was hoping it wouldn't be 'Req, 3 Holy Spirits and a not-Primal Rend' but there it is, Req, 4 HS and a Confiteor-rend (no longer tied to a Req stack, for the players who couldn't count to 4), Goring Blade becomes Sonic Break, wait am I reading this right, that Req windows will be just 1 HS, and the other 3 stacks are used on Blades? I'm too tired for this but my initial read is 'pretty much what I expected of SE at this point'

edit: and why the hell does Blade of T/F/V have a non-Req potency listed? We can use it outside of Req now?

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems more like the 4 stacks of Requiescat are intended to be used to buff the entire Confiteor > Blade combo. Your normal combo instead grants a buff to Holy Spirit.

[Kemeko]

If Divine Might was "Increase potency by 100% and no cast time" with the old rotation, Requiescat would have been a proper burst with little change. (Req) Holy Spirit = (FoF) 1.25 x Atonement, so Req Holy spirit and FoF Atonement power match. Divine Might = 2 x Holy Spirit (either Req or no Req) with multiple values. Since, Fight or Flight is 10 gcd, Requiescat is 5 gcd, so Requiescat should hit twice as hard as Fight or Flight. Build up Divine Might stacks, so you spend both Divine Might and Requiescat at the same time for big burst.

[ForsakenRoe]

I understand the Confiteor/Req/Blades thing now I think, the non-Req potency for the Blades is for if you're mid combo and run out of Req stacks, cos you did HS-HS-Conf-Blade(run out here)-Blade-Blade. Which means I guess yes it's a potential noobtrap of sorts. Ridiculous. I cant even picture what the rotation's gonna feel like with Atonement still existing in the same form, Fast, Riot, RA, Atone, Atone, Atone, HS, repeat for 50s till next FOF is gonna be so weird. Being able to move the HS about in between the Atones is... nice I guess, but the question is if it/Atone still break the 123

And why do we STILL have bloody Shield Bash? PLD was already kinda suffering for hotbar space and with Bulwark being added back I'd assumed we'd be removing useless crap like Shield Bash. But no, still there. Weird priorities

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems more like the 4 stacks of Requiescat are intended to be used to buff the entire Confiteor > Blade combo. Your normal combo instead grants a buff to Holy Spirit.

Yeh, we do 4 HS in Req. At 80 we swap one out for Confiteor, and at 90 we swap the other 3 out for the Blades. I think. Which is definitely different from pressing IR, then Primal Rend, then 3 Fell Cleaves

I dunno. Atonement definitely feels like it needs a potency bump. Otherwise, any time you could fit four GCDs, you'd just do the Authority combo even if you have Sword Oath stacks on hand... Not to mention, Divine Might is also giving us the 400 potency cure every 4th GCD, which is presumably meant to finally give proper compensation to PLD for lacking a cure on their filler combo.

Holy Spirit costs MP right? I assume the limiter on us being able to just ignore Atonement like that is that we'd run dry on MP, Atonement is our main source of regenerating it

[Rithy255]

My main disappointment is how PLD's still gonna feel really bad until like Shadow bringers, the Job needs more of its abilities earlier, or weaker versions don't even get a gap closer mind you until 74? Its likely going to feel really bland in HW content (more then it was), you're just going to be pressing 1, 2, 3 until like stormblood where you get to press 1, 2, 3, 4 or pressing that 4 button a lot, Goring blade changes weren't great but make sense, POA still kinda annoying. Intervention Should be removed, it's pointless now just make it so the recast timer of holy shelltron is shorter so you can fit two into double tank busters, Shield bash and cover remain still here despite being useless, Also the job is going to be way too Crit depedent in it's burst it's giving out like a bunch of near 1000 potencies (with FOF effecting both), so I can imagine a lot of PLD's are going to depend on crit chance to do good damage.

I'm happy that holy spirit now can likely sustain you better outside burst windows, you should have more choice and timing for when you want that small healing effect unless you're in burst, Divine veil is amazing thank you, Bulwark is basically a rampart that's a bit weird with DOTS eitherway it's gonna be pretty good and make PLD pretty stronger defensively, I'm also happy that PLD is generally likely going to be a stronger/better class in general. They didn't remove Clemency either so all is good.

I guess I'm really neutral on the changes as a result, I feel like they're going to need to still change a few things about PLD, but this current structure works, I'm just not a fan of how it will feel really boring to play in early content, goring blade changes weren't good either imo (the ability doesn't even look strong or something with 700 potency...)

[Gserpent]

Trust me, I was that weird angry/depressed state when I saw that EW did fuck all about how bad most classes' down-sync experience is.

There is literally no justification for having ability progression laid out so poorly. At *bare minimum*, they need to revamp everything from 1-60 since that covers the free trial. Gap closers, AOE skills, etc. They need to create nerfed versions of spells and then add traits that improve them to current levels. Like give CNJ a 110 potency AOE water-themed spell at 15, and trait that to become Holy at 45. Stuff like that.

[Blitzgon]

Are you some sorta special kind of dumb? Let's just go ahead and tear at this quote and why you have no idea how to use PLD defensively.

Completely against expectations, it's actually the defensive toolkit - whose changes I thought were going to be pretty much a no-brainer! - that has me flummoxed. Clemency is still effectively unusable outside of early prog. Sheltron is still tied to oath gauge, and oath gauge is still tied to autoswings, so PLD remains the only tank to lose *mitigation* during downtime. Wings still... exists. Divine Veil finally finished being turned into Shake It Off, only a few patches later than it should have been! But then they added an additional regen effect to Shake It Off, so Divine Veil is just categorically worse than Shake It Off.

This is presumably because wings still exists... even though wings is almost never usable outside of what amount to cutscenes. They should have just removed wings and made Divine Veil better. Or changed wings to be an instant-effect circle instead of an awkward cone. Or *something.*

So, yes, Clem is not very useful outside of prog, though it is very nice to have a means to heal not only yourself but other party members when paired up with less then competent healers (Which seems to be a running theme with how much every class seems to be getting simplified down). Now, I want you to name me ANY instance where there is a tank buster, or tank specific damage happening that needs mitigation, that happens during downtime phases, phases in which you need heavy miti to survive. Do you not know about wings tech? You do know you can *Flash* your wings for a moment to apply the damage reduction to the party during, oh I dunno, all the spicy raid wides that we have in the current (Abyssos) raid tier? (The big exception being second phase of P8S since tanks need to stand away from the party for autos or risk murdering them) You can easily help your party out with not only veil, but also wings to greatly reduce damage taken, or even spread the mitigation out so you have veil for when you are up front tanking, and a quick wings flash for when you are OT. So in practice, PLD can help mitigate more damage then the one WAR exclusive party wide mit that it has, Speaking of which, you do know that both tanks have reprisal and can use them on different attacks correct? One can even use it for busters while the other tank can use theirs for raid wide damage. Crazy thought I know.

So in a nutshell, removing wings is a terrible idea and you should really learn how to use the tools given in a class kit, or just play WAR and not have to work more then that one braincell you seem to struggle using to comprehend PLDs tool set.

[Rithy255]

Wings are annoying to use Imo, I understand "just snap shot it" but it doesn't take away from it being a situational and clunky ability, I personally think that it will likely not be changed just because "pretty animation"

Its really not a matter of brain cells, I just don't think we should have to snap shot and cone position wings, it should have more general use, no other mitigation is like wings but that's not a good or unique thing it's just kinda a hassle more then anything.

[Renathras]

...

People complaining about Passage of Arms always confuses me.

The community constantly rails against homogenization. When things happen like Overpower turning from a cone into a circle, people say the sky is falling and the era of samey homogenized boredom is here and all skill expression has been removed from the game.

...but then you have abilities that are different, that require things like positioning and understanding nuance and the underlying mechanics - like Wings having a cone, being based on your facing, and with a mechanic nuance in flashing it - and people complain about it and demand it be changed.

Then if it's ever changed, complain how it's "just like Job X" when it WAS different.

In this very thread, people are complaining about Veil being Shake It Off 2.0. But what were they expecting? People have been asking for it to become JUST THAT (affect the PLD, not require a heal to trigger, etc) until it became the very thing they demanded it become...just so they could complain about it now being just like another Job's ability and be upset about it.

I can't tell if it's just people like to complain or people don't realize they're arguing for homogenized boredom and lack the foresight to see that's what they're demanding, only able to see it for what it is once the change has been made and they ruined it for everyone else. Probably a bit of both...

[RobynDaBank]

The people against homogenization aren't always the same as those not wanting clunk or thinking.