PLD changes

[Maltothoris]

well the notes are out https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...aa3c79b2e733d2

And there is a lot to take in.

[Renathras]

Indeed, reading it right now.

...huh.

...wow...

EDIT: What I'm getting right now is PLD's sustain has been exchanged for bigger hit CDs (likely to put into the 2 min buff windows), and overall the Job's been simplified. e.g. Shelltron just reduces damage taken rather than block (there seems to be no block interaction at all), Veil now just casts a barrier like WAR does including on the PLD (no "on heal" business anymore), Goring Blade is now a single target weaker version of Double Down, Fight or Flight is now No Mercy...

Still reading, but...yeah, interesting...

[Deceptus]

FoF buffing ALL damage instead of physical is amazing.

Divine veil is shake it off 2.0

Still wish Cover didn't require oath gauge.

But this isn't the "full emergency rework" they made it out to be. Some potencies got adjusted, dots removed, and bulwark added back.

[Enkidoh]

Maybe I'm not reading things right but all I'm seeing is "potency reduced" everywhere (and the Blade attacks now consume 1000 MP each?).

Urgh.... I don't know, I think they've messed too much with it without actually getting to the core of the problem (trying to make it stronger without overshadowing other Jobs.).

But then, that's been GLA/PLD's lot since late 1.0 I guess... *sighs sadly*

[Darkstride]

Maybe I'm not reading things right but all I'm seeing is "potency reduced" everywhere (and the Blade attacks now consume 1000 MP each?).

Urgh.... I don't know, I think they've messed too much with it without actually getting to the core of the problem (trying to make it stronger without overshadowing other Jobs.).

But then, that's been GLA/PLD's lot since late 1.0 I guess... *sighs sadly*

The Confiteor/Blade combo seems to be considerably stronger as a whole under Resquiecat.

[Gserpent]

well the notes are out https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...aa3c79b2e733d2

And there is a lot to take in.

What is amounts to is: Yoshida is full of shit.

Talking about an emergency rework, how PLD doesn't really fit into the current design of the game, doom and gloom. Being really shy with sharing notes or details on the changes. Now we know why - not because they were a big change, but because they *weren't* a big change. I'm glad the overall identity of the class and rotation will remain largely intact, but I don't like how they were portraying all these changes. Was it just a huge translation error that, for some inexplicable reason, never really went corrected?

Completely against expectations, it's actually the defensive toolkit - whose changes I thought were going to be pretty much a no-brainer! - that has me flummoxed. Clemency is still effectively unusable outside of early prog. Sheltron is still tied to oath gauge, and oath gauge is still tied to autoswings, so PLD remains the only tank to lose *mitigation* during downtime. Wings still... exists. Divine Veil finally finished being turned into Shake It Off, only a few patches later than it should have been! But then they added an additional regen effect to Shake It Off, so Divine Veil is just categorically worse than Shake It Off.

This is presumably because wings still exists... even though wings is almost never usable outside of what amount to cutscenes. They should have just removed wings and made Divine Veil better. Or changed wings to be an instant-effect circle instead of an awkward cone. Or *something.*

Like... this is supposed to have been an "emergency rework." It's not just making a few minor adjustments, it's supposed to be major changes to how the class operates. But I'm not seeing that here. They *should* have made major adjustments. Oath Gauge should have been turned into beast gauge or cartridge gauge and Sheltron/Intervention should have been divorced from gauge usage. Clemency should have been changed to become DPS neutral under certain circumstances, or just DPS neutral at all times but only usable with resource/cooldown.

Someone is fucking up over there, and they're fucking up pretty bad. This is pretty poor showing, especially juxtaposed to the rest of the patch's content being generally pretty good. Raid design is still decent, mechanic design is still good, but combat design has been getting worse and worse ever since Shadowbringers. Who keeps fucking up, and who keeps allowing them to remain on the "combat design team"? They need to be taken off that team before they cause even more damage to the gameplay systems.

[Blitzgon]

Are you some sorta special kind of dumb? Let's just go ahead and tear at this quote and why you have no idea how to use PLD defensively.

Completely against expectations, it's actually the defensive toolkit - whose changes I thought were going to be pretty much a no-brainer! - that has me flummoxed. Clemency is still effectively unusable outside of early prog. Sheltron is still tied to oath gauge, and oath gauge is still tied to autoswings, so PLD remains the only tank to lose *mitigation* during downtime. Wings still... exists. Divine Veil finally finished being turned into Shake It Off, only a few patches later than it should have been! But then they added an additional regen effect to Shake It Off, so Divine Veil is just categorically worse than Shake It Off.

This is presumably because wings still exists... even though wings is almost never usable outside of what amount to cutscenes. They should have just removed wings and made Divine Veil better. Or changed wings to be an instant-effect circle instead of an awkward cone. Or *something.*

So, yes, Clem is not very useful outside of prog, though it is very nice to have a means to heal not only yourself but other party members when paired up with less then competent healers (Which seems to be a running theme with how much every class seems to be getting simplified down). Now, I want you to name me ANY instance where there is a tank buster, or tank specific damage happening that needs mitigation, that happens during downtime phases, phases in which you need heavy miti to survive. Do you not know about wings tech? You do know you can *Flash* your wings for a moment to apply the damage reduction to the party during, oh I dunno, all the spicy raid wides that we have in the current (Abyssos) raid tier? (The big exception being second phase of P8S since tanks need to stand away from the party for autos or risk murdering them) You can easily help your party out with not only veil, but also wings to greatly reduce damage taken, or even spread the mitigation out so you have veil for when you are up front tanking, and a quick wings flash for when you are OT. So in practice, PLD can help mitigate more damage then the one WAR exclusive party wide mit that it has, Speaking of which, you do know that both tanks have reprisal and can use them on different attacks correct? One can even use it for busters while the other tank can use theirs for raid wide damage. Crazy thought I know.

So in a nutshell, removing wings is a terrible idea and you should really learn how to use the tools given in a class kit, or just play WAR and not have to work more then that one braincell you seem to struggle using to comprehend PLDs tool set.

[Renathras]

...

People complaining about Passage of Arms always confuses me.

The community constantly rails against homogenization. When things happen like Overpower turning from a cone into a circle, people say the sky is falling and the era of samey homogenized boredom is here and all skill expression has been removed from the game.

...but then you have abilities that are different, that require things like positioning and understanding nuance and the underlying mechanics - like Wings having a cone, being based on your facing, and with a mechanic nuance in flashing it - and people complain about it and demand it be changed.

Then if it's ever changed, complain how it's "just like Job X" when it WAS different.

In this very thread, people are complaining about Veil being Shake It Off 2.0. But what were they expecting? People have been asking for it to become JUST THAT (affect the PLD, not require a heal to trigger, etc) until it became the very thing they demanded it become...just so they could complain about it now being just like another Job's ability and be upset about it.

I can't tell if it's just people like to complain or people don't realize they're arguing for homogenized boredom and lack the foresight to see that's what they're demanding, only able to see it for what it is once the change has been made and they ruined it for everyone else. Probably a bit of both...

[Rithy255]

People complaining about Passage of Arms always confuses me.

The community constantly rails against homogenization. When things happen like Overpower turning from a cone into a circle, people say the sky is falling and the era of samey homogenized boredom is here and all skill expression has been removed from the game.

...but then you have abilities that are different, that require things like positioning and understanding nuance and the underlying mechanics - like Wings having a cone, being based on your facing, and with a mechanic nuance in flashing it - and people complain about it and demand it be changed.

Then if it's ever changed, complain how it's "just like Job X" when it WAS different.

In this very thread, people are complaining about Veil being Shake It Off 2.0. But what were they expecting? People have been asking for it to become JUST THAT (affect the PLD, not require a heal to trigger, etc) until it became the very thing they demanded it become...just so they could complain about it now being just like another Job's ability and be upset about it.

I can't tell if it's just people like to complain or people don't realize they're arguing for homogenized boredom and lack the foresight to see that's what they're demanding, only able to see it for what it is once the change has been made and they ruined it for everyone else. Probably a bit of both...

It really doesn't require "thinking" to use passage of arms, it's a annoyance that's inconsistent depending on the fight that's the issue? I dislike "homogenization" but the Divine veil changes were perfect, I don't know who's complaining that it's now less annoying to use.

homogenization isn't always bad it isn't always good, for example I wouldn't find a DPS raid buff where you have to position it a "interesting" and unique mechanic, it would feel awful and clunky to use. Theirs good differences between classes and bad ones, being annoying to use for the sake of being "unique" isn't good design. we should strive for unique and fun ways of utility, rotation, buffs but we should want abilities that are "unique" but in a good way, not in a more punishing way, that feels underwhelming.

[Renathras]

It really doesn't require "thinking" to use passage of arms, it's a annoyance that's inconsistent depending on the fight that's the issue?

This is literally the argument for every homogenization effort in MMO history.

It's always because something is "annoying" or "inconsistent" etc that causes homogenization to try to make them not that by making them all the same.

Everyone thinks the thing they are asking for isn't the dreaded homogenization. People asking for a Knockback immunity on non-PLDs (only PLDs had it in ARR) don't think they're asking for homogenization. People asking for more oGCD heals for their healer didn't think they were asking for homogenization. People asking for Feint and Addle to work on the other damage type didn't think they were asking for homogenization. No one asking for something to be changed thinks they're asking for homogenization.

I dislike "homogenization" but the Divine veil changes were perfect, I don't know who's complaining that it's now less annoying to use.

No one's complaining it's less annoying to use. People are complaining it's basically a reskinned Shake It Off - e.g. that homogenization has happened.

homogenization isn't always bad

Oh, this is completely true, I agree.

Yet people complain about homogenization. All I was doing was pointing out this is how we get it.

Passage isn't terribly annoying to use. It really isn't. It's one of the few things a tank has now that actually is based on things like positioning - something that use to be a staple of overall tanking. It's not hard or annoying or inconsistent. You simply face where your party is behind you in a stack mechanic. You tap it on. Then you move. There's nothing annoying or inconsistent about that. It consistently works the same way every time, and parties that communicate make use of it. And it's consistently easy to use since all you have to do is face a direction and push a button.

Annoying is a subjective term. Inconsistent is an objective term.

It's objectively consistent, thus it is not inconsistent.

And subjectively, many people find it to not be annoying and, in fact, to be a fun ability. Good design, in other words, that is unique and flavorful as well as being useful and functional.

This would be akin to arguing Sacred Soil needs to be turned into Kerachole because the positioning element makes it bad.