The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Renathras]

Okay, what are you even talking about now?

Who are you arguing against?

Gutting 3 out of 4 healers

Who's arguing to gut healers? Leaving a thing as it is is not gutting it. I'm not sure how to explain this concept. How is leaving a thing alone changing it? Leaving it alone is, by definition, not changing it. "gutting" is a change. Therefore, leaving a thing alone cannot be "gutting" by definition.

...to somehow purposely truncate...

Who is arguing to truncate? I'm arguing to expand 3 healers and leave one alone. Leaving a thing alone is not truncating it. Again, this is true by definition. What are you arguing? Who are you arguing against? Who is arguing to truncate Jobs? Do you know what the word truncate means?

Mate, I am summarizing objectively what we've been seeing thus far across the warrants and claims made in this thread

Where did I say you weren't?

I said this thread doesn't represent the player base.

You have less than 30 players, and posts that have 8-17 likes, yes?

Is 17 people a majority of the 3-5 million playing the game?

I'm talking to the people in this thread. The problems are (a) you guys seem not to be listening given the number of times you've collectively either misrepresented my statements even with me outright saying those aren't my statements (if I'm being charitable - lying if I'm not being charitable) and (b) are so set on your solution that you aren't interested in any other possible solutions, even ones that would be better for the game or more acceptable to the playerbase.

You suggested that only one should have a significant skill ceiling, that only one should have anything approaching offensive rotation, that only one should have any significant buff gameplay, etc.

I've not done any of those things at any time.

I've argued three should have high skill ceilings. I've argued at least two and probably three should have offensive rotations - not "anything approaching"; full on dps rotations. I've argued at least two should have buff gameplay.

Here I must ask if you're intentionally lying about what I'm saying or if you just aren't reading my posts? I countered that third one outright by pointing out SCH has Chain Strategem now and would retain it. (Note here that SGE and WHM don't have buffs right now. Are you proposing a future design where all four healers have a dozen buffs they juggle across the party? Surely you aren't...) I've argued against the second when I proposed SCH have its complete SB rotation back (which is on par with DPS Jobs in the game now; 4 DoTs [Bio, Miasma, Miasma 2, Shadow Flare], a spam nuke, a movement nuke, a resource burner in Energy Drain, and a cleave in Bane as well as Miasma 2 itself), and proposed that SGE have a combat rotation akin to RDM (which is a DPS Job). And even that AST could get another DoT as well. I've argued against the first in almost every post that I've mentioned skill gaps.

.

Again, who are you arguing against?

Either you're arguing against a phantom strawman in this thread that isn't me, whose posts I can't see, and with you quoting me instead of him/her...

...or you're outright lying about my points...

...or you just aren't reading my posts (despite quoting from them) and are just replying without reading.

I'm curious: Which is it?

Can you tell me the name of the person you're arguing against and quote their posts instead of my posts that aren't saying the things you're arguing against and have even outright said those weren't the things I was saying?

.

...although...never mind.

As I said, we aren't going to convince each other. Part of that is you ignoring what I'm saying and inserting strawman arguments in place of mine, despite me pointing out I'm not saying those things. I can't have a debate with a person who is lying about everything I say and arguing against a phantom, sorry.

As I said, my proposal would do the most good for the most people, cause the least disruption, and make the most people happy. That's all there is to it. If you don't want that, you need some really good arguments, and thus far, haven't had any. That's my peace and I've said it. o/

[ASkellington]

I've argued three should have high skill ceilings. I've argued at least two and probably three should have offensive rotations - not "anything approaching"; full on dps rotations. I've argued at least two should have buff gameplay.

Here is the simple problem with your idea. If 1 nuke 1 dot is a problem on all four healers leaving one with that same simple rotation leaves it still as a problem. It isn't good enough for 4. There for it isn't good enough for 1.

It is objectively boring to have 2 dps buttons on a job for 86 levels in this game when there is solo content to be done. All healers can have one or two more buttons. WHM shouldn't be the exception just because it is "easy" when it isn't acceptable for the other 3.

[ty_taurus]

Here's the reality of the general reception of the healers in this game: most players that actually play healers are unbothered by the state of them, but would respond positively to more offensive spells or other forms of consistent actions that can be used regardless of whether healing is required or not. For most players, a job is good when it looks cool and its animations feel exciting, and a job is bad when it feels clunky or mechanically frustrating to play.

The only players who could possibly be unhappy with this are those that would be unhappy that maintaining 1 button spam no longer would mean you'd parse high, but actual optimization-focused players would be happy to have a greater challenge and more depth for them to reach those high numbers. Only people who want a free ride or like that they can stealth their way into savage while doing a fraction of the work every other role has to put in to get the clear would genuinely be upset.

There is also the group of players that want recovery-focused gameplay, but the thing is, FFXIV has NEVER been the game for that style of healer. This is not WoW. No fight has ever been designed to output damage every few seconds to demand constant healing. The only time that happens is extremely rarely do you get a phase like Brute Justice who spams an AoE for the last small chunk of his HP, which is not only a phase and not a representation of the entire fight, but also something that has almost never been done since. In all honesty, if that's the type of gameplay you want, and the idea of the effectively combat medic role that FFXIV healers are designed for is not, then go play WoW. Stop biting your tongue and enduring a game you do not enjoy if this is not the type of healer you want to play. Or jump in for the story and go to WoW for the raiding once you're caught up. Stop punishing yourself.

[Shurrikhan]

Who is arguing to truncate? I'm arguing to expand 3 healers and leave one alone. Leaving a thing alone is not truncating it.

So, you've got 4 starving people...

The apparent general consensus so far: Let them eat as much as they need to reach healthy levels.

You: No! Keep one starved! It's not that I'm denying any of that one food, though; I'm just only feeding 3. After all, the last might want to be hungry but wouldn't be able to resist eating if there were food around!

Yes, frames of reference will matter. If most else would rather healer kits each feel fuller and more engaging, and the discourse is forming around that, but you alone specifically asking that one healer's kit not be thus improved (be left as is)... there is then no difference between "leaving (a bad state) as is" and "truncating" possible improvements. We were already discussing the improvements we'd like to see before you're "axe that; keep them the same." Nor is there any difference between saying that all but one job should have its damage-dealing left as is and truncating what's available for those other jobs.