Scale back Critical Hit

[HyperiusUltima]

No.. please give me back my crit variance. Do you have any idea how absolutely boring auto crits are? May as well just remove crit as a function at that point.

You know how frustrating it is trying to fit a Critical Direct Hit in a damage window? Because Auto Crits aren't what I'm asking for.

[Jeeqbit]

Tenacity - Tank-only stat that reduces damage taken. It reduces damage taken very, VERY slightly, and only slightly raises damage done. Not a good stat to invest into.

I disagree with the assessment that it's slight because it can reduce the incoming damage by 10%. The damage reduction is just about fine, it's just that we can get away without it. Even if it was 20% or 30% mitigation, nobody would care because we use Rampart, Sentinel and Sheltron on the busters and have the defense stat and a trait that reduces damage. Tanks survive mechanics that everyone else in the raid can't, including ones that are supposed to wipe the entire party, so why would they need yet more mitigation? Additionally, once you gear up as weeks progress, the extra Vitality makes up for not having Tenacity by giving everyone more room for error. When you combine these facts with how it increases damage less than Determination, a lot of people will choose the piece with Determination on it over the piece with Tenacity on it.

If someone is of the mindset to help the healers as much as possible with the Abyssos dots at the expense of their damage, they already have plenty of reason to stack Tenacity, but let's be honest, everyone just goes to The Balance or their friends reiterate information from there to avoid Tenacity, so they will avoid it even if it's 20%, 30% or 40% mitigation. They can say "it could be useful for prog" but people will just skip past that, seek out a BiS list and use it.

Skill/Spell Speed - A stat that determines your GCD. Definitely needs looking at, as its only purpose is to enforce certain GCD tiers and not provide much else. It's been the bane of some jobs' existence as well.

Skill/Spell Speed increases the damage of dots/damage areas and auto-attacks as well. I don't think that this stat is actually a problem itself. The problem is that we have strict rotations that can be messed up by using it and there will always be a meta, and that meta is regarded as being crit. If we got rid of crit and dh, jobs without too strict or unaffected rotations might actually use it.

There will always be a meta stat, especially while we have crit and dh available to all jobs. Without those it would probably be different stats for each job.

[Amenara]

If someone is of the mindset to help the healers as much as possible with the Abyssos dots at the expense of their damage, they already have plenty of reason to stack Tenacity, but let's be honest, everyone just goes to The Balance or their friends reiterate information from there to avoid Tenacity, so they will avoid it even if it's 20%, 30% or 40% mitigation. They can say "it could be useful for prog" but people will just skip past that, seek out a BiS list and use it.

There will always be a meta stat, especially while we have crit and dh available to all jobs. Without those it would probably be different stats for each job.

I think with heals being so strong is the biggest mitigating factor for wanting Tenacity as well. If there is little to no need for healers to burn a GCD on healing the tank then why would the tank need more mitigation when they can stack more effective sub stats. There 100% is a meta, but the meta is dps is king which makes things that dont contribute or contribute less trash stats past any breakpoints you want or need.

[Semirhage]

Square tried to mitigate the no-GCD healing meta by making bleeds ubiquitous in Abyssos. The problems with that approach are numerous.

• They want to make healing harder without scaring unskilled healers, which are practically mutually exclusive goals
• They made it a mitigation check instead of a healing check, which is a party responsibility that's blamed on healers when things go south
• oGCD healing is still meta, because free and instant always beats slow with an opportunity cost
• Their desire to make GCD healing more important is entirely rooted in "because that's what healers are supposed to do", which ignores how dreadfully boring GCD healing spells as currently designed are.

[Zebraoracle]

I think the bigger issue is that secondary stats are pretty awful and need a redesign to make other options compelling. When your secondary stats for everyone are crit > everything else you have messed that one up. Good issue to bring up regardless.

Gosh I agree with this so hard. I know people here hate talking about WoW, but I think they did sub-stats pretty decently. Everything isn't "you only want crit ever", some specs actually want more haste and/or mastery (mastery does different things depending on the spec, and in some specs it's VERY strong).

Haste is actually desirable in large amounts sometimes, and not just for meme builds (gotta go fast BLM for example) or "to a certain point" or "for comfort". And unlike spell speed/skill speed, it doesn't run as much of a risk of completely screwing up your rotation if you accidentally get too much (I can never seriously use my SMN with my spell speed addiction for my BLM, but fire 4 go BRRRRRRRRRRRR). Haste also increases HoT/DoT speed which feels really nice for classes that use those, I'm not entirely sure why spell/skill speed increase damage instead of rate???

Versatility is basically determination, but better (increases your damage and healing by a % and reduces damage taken by half that percent).

As said before, mastery does different things for different specs, but for some specs it's very strong. Like for resto shamans, it basically turns every healing spell into astro's essential dignity.

In comparison to WoW's substats, FF14's substats just... feel bad. I don't get excited that I just got a new piece of gear with crit on it... because I'm going to meld crit anyways.

[dspguy]

I think the bigger issue is that secondary stats are pretty awful and need a redesign to make other options compelling. When your secondary stats for everyone are crit > everything else you have messed that one up. Good issue to bring up regardless.

The nature of MMO players is always going to be "what combination of gear/melds/rotation will yield the most DPS?" And when they find that combination, that'll be the "new crit." The closest we've ever been to having to actually think about what gear to choose was back when tanks could go with STR or VIT melds on accessories and we had accuracy thresholds. On Day 1 of a new gear tier, it was pretty clear what BiS would be... but not how to get to BiS while maintaining minimum accuracy and maximum crit.

What we have now is mostly "highest iLvl that has crit and no Skill/Spell speed." The minimal thought process we have is what to do when our gear options are higher iLvl without crit vs 10 iLvl lower with crit. That's about it.

[Themarvin]

I think people whine too much about this and possible gear wrong.. maybe the gearing is more towards DET and DH...

Also for any given window it is all about skipping mechanics... if lower crit rate does this, then it also get more difficult to skip a mechanic... skipping mechanics in raids = bad and lowers the players skill of being able to actually deal with these mechanics...

Everyone that play this game know that every boss Savage as none Savage all run on a scripted run and if you can pass the time limits you will entirely skip certain mechanics.

Let it stay as it is, if it mean it is more difficult so be it, if you need the next tier to beat the previous.. so be it.

Also main stat is STR, DEX whichever stat that adds to your main attributes.. CRT, DET, DH,TNC, SPD, PT, SPS is all counted as secondary stats.. and most of them you can only raise the percentage of whichever thing by a couple of points by adding to.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Revamp current Crit stat into Critical Damage%

Get rid of current Direct Hit stat, replace it with Crit%.

...Maybe.

[Raven2014]

I think I remember reading somewhere about Yoshida wanting to redesign secondaries at some point but I am not sure where he talked about it. I agree, Tenacity is a junk stat because of how poorly it scales and how little the damage reduction matters with the biggest concern being tank busters instead of steady damage throughout a fight along with healers being very strong in the healing department. I wish there was a way to make skill speed akin to haste stat in FFXI, but unfortunately that would require a major combat rework to make auto-attacks more impactful and have a lot more of your skills CDs affected by the stat (bringing us closer to WoW combat I guess :/ ). Piety is more or less a junk stat I imagine got implemented because the people who redesigned substats in ShB ran out of ideas and if I had to guess and expected MP economy to matter at some level.

The issue with Tenacity is two fold:

First problem, tank has too many defensive CD already, and all the TB mechanic has always been about them using their CD correctly to survive. Tenacity never really played a role in determining whether the tank live or die to a buster.

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Frankly the tank design in FF14 does not really lend itself to a passive "tank" stat. Pretty much all of their defensive cool down are duration base instead of hit base (like TBN). For example, in dungeon, with proper CD tank can have almost have 100% up time on their mit unless the DPS is really bad, and thus passive damage reduction is negligible.

[Amenara]

The issue with Tenacity is two fold:

First problem, tank has too many defensive CD already, and all the TB mechanic has always been about them using their CD correctly to survive. Tenacity never really played a role in determining whether the tank live or die to a buster.

That leave Tenacity as a damage reduction stat is only meaningful for AOE and Auto attack. Tank pretty much just shrug off the former, and auto-attack come down to one thing: how often does a healer has to heal you for auto? Basically, it needs to reduce the damage from auto enough that it will save the healer one single target heal. The issue is ... healer's single heal are very strong, so the damage reduction have to be massive as well, otherwise all it does it adds overheal on the healer, which is the second problem.

Frankly the tank design in FF14 does not really lend itself to a passive "tank" stat. Pretty much all of their defensive cool down are duration base instead of hit base (like TBN). For example, in dungeon, with proper CD tank can have almost have 100% up time on their mit unless the DPS is really bad, and thus passive damage reduction is negligible.

100% agree, and that's not even talking about self-healing on tanks. All of this is kind of why I'd prefer they just go back to the drawing board when it comes to secondary stats since it looks like they are just going to double down on current combat design and not change that.