Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[FireMage]

Yoshi P has stated a million times there will never be damage meters of any kind ever in the game. It's banned and that will never change. Yoshi P has stated that he doesn't want to see people get excluded from content because of damage meters.

Some people should be excluded from content though because they are bad and weigh down 7 other people

Then go play WoW. Be toxic there.

Cleaving bads is not, has never been, and never will be toxic. Your sub doesn't entitle you to clearing something

[FireMage]

I think not having an official dps meter is the right call.

With it, toxic players will use it as a tool to bash newbies who are not performing to their perceived standards which would promote toxicity within the game. By tacitly allowing unofficial dps meters for players who want them, players who want to analyze their own performance can use these external tools to aid them but toxic players can't abuse them to go after newbie players as by doing so, they are admitting that they are using third party tools and opening themselves to GM punishment.

A win win situation for all parties around.

Kicking an underperforming player is allowed by the TOS. Try again

[VelKallor]

Cleaving bads is not, has never been, and never will be toxic. Your sub doesn't entitle you to clearing something\

I miss Titanmen

[Kansene]

I love how you are yelling strawman against liam's post when they have already included your arguement in it.

And I love how you're interpreting this as some kind of "gotcha moment".

"You're 10% below the NIN on dps on this fight!"
"NIN has better burst, they're naturally higher-"
"Why are you playing MCH? They're the BOTTOM performer! Obviously you're trolling!"
"I like being a mch?"
"I looked at your total casts and you're not using double down on CD!"
"It's my first time and a confusing mechanic was happe-"
"STOP PERFORMING SUBPAR!"
"It's a leveling du-"
"SUBOPTIMAL! DRIFT! OGCD FLOAT! REEEE!!! VOTEKICK THE TROLL HOLDING US BACK!!!

I'm sure at least one of his opinions might be in this made-up text, doesn't make it any less of a strawman.
Painting the opposition in such an infantile and unflattering light isn't a good way to have an honest conversation, and I feel like it's more about "winning" than actually presenting a reasonable point of view.
I'm definitely willing to listen to what the other side has to say, and I might even be convinced, but not by posts like that.

[Ardeth]

Real talk if they add ingame dps meters I'm out. 100% hitting the unsubscribe page.

[FireMage]

Real talk if they add ingame dps meters I'm out. 100% hitting the unsubscribe page.

Well that's already one more good reason to add them

[Ardeth]

Well that's already one more good reason to add them

Why? Why in your right mind would you want less people to play your game? As a company with shareholders that makes little sense irregardless of your toxic remarks. Thank the twelve I don't play on a data center with a person such as you.

[Saraide]

And I love how you're interpreting this as some kind of "gotcha moment".

"You're 10% below the NIN on dps on this fight!"
"NIN has better burst, they're naturally higher-"
"Why are you playing MCH? They're the BOTTOM performer! Obviously you're trolling!"
"I like being a mch?"
"I looked at your total casts and you're not using double down on CD!"
"It's my first time and a confusing mechanic was happe-"
"STOP PERFORMING SUBPAR!"
"It's a leveling du-"
"SUBOPTIMAL! DRIFT! OGCD FLOAT! REEEE!!! VOTEKICK THE TROLL HOLDING US BACK!!!

I'm sure at least one of his opinions might be in this made-up text, doesn't make it any less of a strawman.
Painting the opposition in such an infantile and unflattering light isn't a good way to have an honest conversation, and I feel like it's more about "winning" than actually presenting a reasonable point of view.
I'm definitely willing to listen to what the other side has to say, and I might even be convinced, but not by posts like that.

None of it was a strawman, Liam simply adressed the most prevalent arguments. Your's was part of it. But instead of engaging with it you are yelling strawman and foul. The fact of the matter is that all this doomsaying about how much exclusion is going to happen is silly because it all is already possible and happening. Liam falls just slightly short of adressing all available counterpoints by not considering this aspect:

Ok so heres what I dont get. If we already have people parse and use FFlogs anyway, what in the hells are we debating about? Are we seriously just trying to push this for the people that dont want it?

And dont say its for the people that want it, they already would have installed the add-on anyway.

The only difference it would effectively make is for console players allowing them to see their own damage numbers without the help of pc players logging for them. In reality the only valid argument against ingame parsing is that it would be a waste of dev time because the community has already created and maintained a reasonably well working tool. Something the devs would either have to copy (making the undertaking pointless) or retread already explored ground (very pointless).

[Bobby66]

There will never be damage meters in FFXIV. If you want damage meters then go play WoW be toxic there. Context was lost in the sauce.

As I mentioned many already know nothing will come of it, but hell this is a general forum meant to foster discussion. Also, if the anti parse crew was so sure in their position what harm comes from those that are for it making topics about it? Not like papa Yoshi-P is going to change his mind on the matter.

Oh I beg to differ.

As has been said, but bears repeating, the day that dps meters are allowed, you will have THAT GUY spamming meters and screaming abuse at people..............in Sastasha.

Thank you, no.

Showing meters to shame someone in leveling content in WoW rarely happens, and when it does it is because the damage gap is freaking massive, and even then it is mostly just for the memes. Most players in WoW just as in FFXIV are understanding that leveling content variance will be massive especially when someone is a new player or on a character without decent gear that you can get from already having a max level character.

It isnt just him, I dont know how many times this has to be said.

THE ENTIRE TEAM doesnt want it. The game is designed to not need them. It has been said over, and over, and over again, I dont see how or why people cant take NO for an answer.

Same way I do not see the reason people that are against parsing get riled up at the mere suggestion being brought up.

[Conadrium]

Hey, did you actually read that last sentence I made in that post or...

I did, but it’s not true. ANY fight becomes harder with poor dps. We just only care when the content is difficult enough that we might wipe to it.