Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

[Kitsune2200]

Instead of damage meters add a system that helps you learn rotions and different situations that the game throws at you

[VelKallor]

I mean, PvP is super dead relatively to PvE in this game...

..and we love it that way.

[Saraide]

You're phrasing this as if this comical strawman is the only kind of player who's against this kind of stuff, which is simply not the case. Other examples include players who do try and do care but get shot down because they're not already playing nigh-perfectly, and players who don't even have any interest in the higher end stuff being thrown shade on within casual content. I found it to be an entirely unwelcome thing to be pulled aside and having every minutia of my performance scrutinized over being 2 sec late to press Fleche on my first ever EX (which was also outdated content that we overgeared at the time) for sure.

These attitudes exist elsewhere where such things are part of the game (including people using ToS-breaking software WITHIN FFXIV itself) and isn't going to magically just not happen because FFXIV is some magical group-hug game where everyone is suddenly a kindhearted teletubby.
People may be prevented from outright flaming and bullying people thanks to Squeenix actually monitoring such things, but you can be dang sure there will be passive-aggressive snark all over the place because "someone is trolling by playing MCH", a plethora of parties urging certain jobs to simply not apply, and people who will make use of the first possible opportunity to avoid playing with people who were unfortunate enough not to play the top-parsing jobs in the game.
These people don't exist, you say? Of course they do, just as surely as the "TOXICITY" example you typed up there.

I'm not going to refute that there certainly is a crowd of people who go "REEE CARRY ME" but please don't grab the broadest brush you can find and use it to paint over everyone who expresses concerns over this.

I love how you are yelling strawman against liam's post when they have already included your arguement in it.

"Statics will exclude everyone!"
"But everyone who raids uses fflogs anyway, lots of causal statics exist and it's been fine?"

[moroarda]

In my experience, most groups don't even reach enrage. They just fail the mechanics, and are forced to reset more often than not until the timer of the duty runs out. DPS meters aren't going to do anything to help those groups.

You're pointing at people who are unprepared for higher end content as the reason that the game doesn't need a feature in higher end content, that's kind of intellectually dishonest.

No, an umbrella won't help you much in a sandstorm, but if it's pouring rain you might want one.

If you're in a trap party or early prog you won't get much out of seeing dps (although it could help you spot points where you need to do something like hold burst) but even if it isn't part of your experience the fact is many groups do clear Savage and dps meters help that.

My own experience with p8sp2 is a really good example. My group had been trying to move towards a week 1 clear for a long time now, we did Asphodelos in 8 days so we were close. The dps wall on p8sp2 on release was tough and we hit our heads against it a fair bit. I changed from SGE to SCH specifically to beat enrage because the advantages of SGE were already kind of moot and between Expedient and the addition to 2m burst via Chain Strat was more attractive. I don't know if we would have come to that conclusion without logs to ponder. We cleared in slightly under an hour of me swapping.

Meters are very worth it in many situations, and pointing to one where they won't be helpful isn't really adding anything to the conversation.

Yoshi P has stated a million times there will never be damage meters of any kind ever in the game. It's banned and that will never change. Yoshi P has stated that he doesn't want to see people get excluded from content because of damage meters.

Yoshida also claimed that FC housing would always be separate from personal housing.

Sometimes he says things that aren't true, or changes his mind.

Like a person.

[VelKallor]

Yoshida also claimed that FC housing would always be separate from personal housing. Sometimes he says things that aren't true, or changes his mind.

The chances of that happening are about....0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

[Atelier-Bagur]

You're pointing at people who are unprepared for higher end content as the reason that the game doesn't need a feature in higher end content, that's kind of intellectually dishonest.

No, an umbrella won't help you much in a sandstorm, but if it's pouring rain you might want one.

If you're in a trap party or early prog you won't get much out of seeing dps (although it could help you spot points where you need to do something like hold burst) but even if it isn't part of your experience the fact is many groups do clear Savage and dps meters help that.

My own experience with p8sp2 is a really good example. My group had been trying to move towards a week 1 clear for a long time now, we did Asphodelos in 8 days so we were close. The dps wall on p8sp2 on release was tough and we hit our heads against it a fair bit. I changed from SGE to SCH specifically to beat enrage because the advantages of SGE were already kind of moot and between Expedient and the addition to 2m burst via Chain Strat was more attractive. I don't know if we would have come to that conclusion without logs to ponder. We cleared in slightly under an hour of me swapping.

Meters are very worth it in many situations, and pointing to one where they won't be helpful isn't really adding anything to the conversation.



Yoshida also claimed that FC housing would always be separate from personal housing.

Sometimes he says things that aren't true, or changes his mind.

Like a person.

Very much true and he has said a lot of other things that were impossible at the time but were implemented eventually but unlike those requested features, he's shown absolute contempt at the question always being presented to the point that he doesnt want to address it anymore.

[moroarda]

Very much true and he has said a lot of other things that were impossible at the time but were implemented eventually but unlike those requested features, he's shown absolute contempt at the question always being presented to the point that he doesnt want to address it anymore.

My point was fairly clear - he's said things that turn out to not be true in the future.

Yes, I'm aware of his weird hatred for parsing, but unlike most people (apparently) I recognize that he's a normal person who can on occasion learn about something and have their opinion evolve.

[LaylaTsarra]

The chances of that happening are about....0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%

Yes but hope springs eternal in the hearts of the number crunchers. Got to have ma numbers. Guess giving parsers the finger doesn't get his point across well enough I suppose.

[VelKallor]

Yes, I'm aware of his weird hatred for parsing, but unlike most people (apparently) I recognize that he's a normal person who can on occasion learn about something and have their opinion evolve.

It isnt just him, I dont know how many times this has to be said.

THE ENTIRE TEAM doesnt want it. The game is designed to not need them. It has been said over, and over, and over again, I dont see how or why people cant take NO for an answer.

[FireMage]

Ok so heres what I dont get. If we already have people parse and use FFlogs anyway, what in the hells are we debating about? Are we seriously just trying to push this for the people that dont want it?

And dont say its for the people that want it, they already would have installed the add-on anyway.

Console players can't parse. Also who cares what the bads have to say, they don't matter