YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[Azuri]

You have to do 1 AoE on the first pack before going after the second pack.

Wrong.

It's called latency, darling. No matter how carefully I try to position myself in the middle of the pack to hit it all with my AoE, the game servers may be registering positions different than what I'm seeing by the time my action is recorded on the game server. There have been times my AoE has hit everything EXCEPT the mob that appeared to be closest to me. There have been times they have been just outside of my AoE, especially when a DPS starts tunneling something on the edge of the pack instead of in the middle so they get pulled outside of my AoE range.

Nice for you if you have 20 ping so no problems. Not so nice for those that are playing with much higher ping.

Irrelevant. You do not pull packs with an AoE.

[Gserpent]

The pace car has nothing to do with the pit crew.

Literally any of the cars on the track that are going for numerous laps need their tires changed and other elements addressed. Skipping pit stops is how wrecks happen. The pace car also fucks off after a few warm-up laps and only pops back up during caution periods.

It's a bad analogy. And you're still wrong, regardless. Why are you so stubborn about this? Why can't you just accept that your view on things isn't correct?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]Nice for you if you have 20 ping so no problems. Not so nice for those that are playing with much higher ping.

As somebody who regularly plays at what people considers as moderately high ping, I have to disagree. I think it also comes down to how comfortable and getting used to that latency on our own term, if there's any. I play on 175ms ping on very good days, 180-190ms on regular days, and 200+ on not-so-good days (SEA folk playing in NA server :cry: ).

Even with all of that, I still rarely had issue to pull packs properly, with or without AoE. If I miss any, then no biggie. I just click whichever mob that doesn't have red aggro indicator on the enmity table to toss 1 ranged attack or Provoke. The faster I get to the stopping point, the less chip damage I'll take on my way to get there. Heck, even tossing that ranged attack one by one as the mob following you/whoever aggros them could work (except those pulls where there are 10+ enemies aggroing at the same time). That DPS/healer won't die that easily, I even do this sometimes myself as a healer: if I can take a few damage for the tank, then the tank will suffer less damage. It's fine, I also used my AoE tools to heal the tank and unsurprisingly, myself and whoever stood within range!

Worst case scenario, they're out of range? I just let that puller bring their new friend to me once I'm settled at stopping point. Nobody dies, pull resolved. Seems like a win-win scenario.

[Jojoya]

You're not really in a position to be telling people how to tank, sweetheart. I agree that people may come to the game absent knowledge of games of this type, but it's Square-Enix's job to teach them the basics of gameplay, not us. If Square-Enix is failing on that job (and they are), that's on them to fix it. Regardless, people are not nearly so stupid as Square-Enix seems to believe them to be. A majority of players will get a new button and hit it a few times to see what it does. If they are experienced at games, they might actually look at the tooltip to see what the game says it does... but most people will mash new buttons because why else would they get them? They'll figure out the move where you spin your axe or sword around hits more than one dude.

So rather than take a few minutes to help someone improve, you'd rather bitch at them or about them in Tales from Duty Finder?

While not everyone is stupid, there are a lot of people who fail at logical reasoning and lack curiosity about the tools at their disposal. They don't open their spellbooks to see all the abilities they've learned at higher levels because they don't realize they have them. They stuck with the default UI set up which only gives them 2 visible hotbars to play with even though there are 10 total. By the time they get to 50, those hotbars are filled with misc. things like potions, food, Return, commonly used emotes, etc. so there's no room left for new abilities to autofill into the visible hotbars. With most of them getting learned automatically when they level up, they have no idea those additional abilities are available to them until someone else notices they're not getting used and mentions it.

Should SE do a better job of teaching all this? Sure. Is it happening? No. Being part of a community means helping each other to improve the community in general. If you're not willing to help others, than learn to deal with the result.

This game has a slow tickrate specifically to compensate for latency. Get your connection fixed, use any of the several options of ping fixing that are available, or even try a VPN.

You need to learn to check your real life privilege.

One thrown rock is like 50x aggro or something utterly ridiculous like that. It has its own massive enmity modifier on top of tank stance's.

Yes, on that one target. It's not doing much on the rest other than saying "there's something to attack in that direction.

Trying to throw rocks at individual mobs is a pretty poor way of getting enmity on a large pack when you can only do it as fast as your GCD allows.

Can you hit the strays that weren't picked up by your AoE with your rock? Sure if they're still in range and not back by the healer who stopped to cast something while you're running ahead. You're still hampered by that GCD. Better to give them a second hit with the AoE while they're still in range and before you continue moving.

I regularly played at 130-160 ms when the servers were in Quebec, with frequent lag spikes and packet loss due to having a shit ISP at the time.

So in other words, you've never played with poor latency. 150 is very good compared to what many players experience.

Have them start gathering before you arrive, via Provoke or the like so they're already drawn into your AoE range as you pass. If that still fails due to a random and severe lag spike, just pop an Orogeny/Scorn/Flood, too, as you go. It's really that simple.

And when that also misses them because you kept running forward while a couple of the mobs paused to prepare an attack or cast something?

I'm sure someone is going to jump in at this point and say "doesn't happen" but it does. Try paying attention to what is around you instead of focusing on what's in the distance.

High ping is really not an excuse, I mean maybe if you are playing with 500 ms or something but outside of weird situations like that you never have to pause mid pack make sure you have aggro then move again. That stop and go action is a sign of a poor tank.

It's also a sign of someone who's used to the effects of latency on their attacks.

Trying reading what I said above to get an idea of all the little things that can happen when you keep running ahead focused on the distance instead of paying attention to what's happening around you. that includes not just what the mobs are doing but what your party members are doing as well.

If I'm in what seems to be a good party and I'm confident in their ability to deal with random problems, then yes I'll keep going and trust in them. If I'm in a group with a couple of new players that clearly have little experience, I'm going to proceed cautiously no matter how experienced the third party member might be.

Irrelevant. You do not pull packs with an AoE.

I'm not talking about pulling with an AoE. I'm talking about gaining enmity on the pack once pulled.

[Bobby66]

You voke or use your range skill while running towards them then you hit your AoE, if I by some chance you miss one you can target the one you miss with your ranged skilled. Why must you pause and wait to do any of that?

Let us say you have a latency of 500 ms, a better question is why are you doing group content and making others suffer through your slow connection. :thinking: Cause we have to be talking some crazy high ms to cause what you are talking about to happen outside of user error.

[Neoyoshi]

This is a very organic topic. Years ago in a much older mmo i recall this same topic was about "white damage" or "please don't do any dots until we say" type of conversation.

[Shurrikhan]

So in other words, you've never played with poor latency. 150 is very good compared to what many players experience.

With frequent spikes into what the game registered as 450-650 ms ping and frequent packet loss (none of which forced me to stop in place to AoE mobs a second time before moving on), but do go on.

If you need to "but what about {X other group}?!" here, it doesn't sound much like that's an issue you have faced.

And when that also misses them because you kept running forward while a couple of the mobs paused to prepare an attack or cast something?

I'm sure someone is going to jump in at this point and say "doesn't happen" but it does. Try paying attention to what is around you instead of focusing on what's in the distance.

It doesn't happen if you just, as simple as it may sound, learn how to do it.
I.e., get good. It's more than worth its very minor time investment.

Every tank has 2 ranged actions (1 GCD, 1 oGCD) to cast while running to the pack even before reaching AoE range, you can slightly alter your path past/through to better group them for your AoE GCD, every tank has yet another AoE as an oGCD, and if you somehow missed one even after that, you still have your ranged GCD.

Finally, even if you somehow fail to use each of those tools, unless the final/missed mob is ranged, you'd be better off leaving it on someone else than taking that extra total party damage (yes, even accounting for your mitigation) from pausing in place and allowing those mobs to catch up and melee you over the course of the gather.

[Yuella]

Wrong.

You're wrong. You range attack 1 mob in 1st pack, stop, AoE, then run to 2nd pack, range attack 1 mob in 2nd pack, AoE the pack and bring both packs together.

[Bobby66]

You're wrong. You range attack 1 mob in 1st pack, stop, AoE, then run to 2nd pack, range attack 1 mob in 2nd pack, AoE the pack and bring both packs together.

You do not have to stop though.

[Canadane]

Press Equilibrium on WAR.
Any strays will magnet to you.