Healers need an overhaul

[Zebraoracle]

Misery deserved its DPS neutral buff because your ability to use lilies is limited. I agree that Toxikon needs to change as well, but it can't simply be getting buffed to 660 to be DPS neutral with Dosis because Eukrasian Diagnosis is not gated by cooldowns and thus, in Savage especially, you would have the ability to spam Eukrasian Diagnosis on your tank and burn Addersting and never actually use Dosis.

Not sure what you mean by E diagnosis not being gated by cooldowns, considering the process of eukrasia'ing a diagnosis is still a full GCD-time investment.

[Raven2014]

Not sure what you mean by E diagnosis not being gated by cooldowns, considering the process of eukrasia'ing a diagnosis is still a full GCD-time investment.

He isn't talking about GCD.

You're limited by the amount of Lily generated. Imagine if it's not gated, there would be no reason to do glare, the WHM rotation can simply becomes 3-Lily-1misery-3lily-1misery.

You can cast E-diagonis "as many times as you want". If there is no trade off SGE can just constantly shield eveyrone and simply use Toxion as almost a permanent replacement for Dosis. Your suggestion (of making its neutral) for example, will completely break P7S (double auto) and P8S (NA)

[Deceptus]

He isn't talking about GCD.

You're limited by the amount of Lily generated. Imagine if it's not gated, there would be no reason to do glare, the WHM rotation can simply becomes 3-Lily-1misery-3lily-1misery.

You can cast E-diagonis "as many times as you want". If there is no trade off SGE can just constantly shield eveyrone and simply use Toxion as almost a permanent replacement for Dosis. Your suggestion (of making its neutral) for example, will completely break P7S (double auto) and P8S (NA)

And in doing so you'd be using the same gcd's to heal vs do damage, difference is it'd be damage neutral.

6 gcd, you'd still have 1800 potency of damage if you did 6 casts of Dosis, or 2 Dosis, 2 E Diag, 2 Toxikon.

If 300 extra potency worth of healer damage is "breaking" an encounter, that's a design flaw. But let's be real, that wouldn't happen (breaking the encounter)

Because in the vast majority of content, healers are spamming a single button anyway and using ogcd's to heal.

But like I said, ALL healers should get this treatment, not just Sage.

[Shurrikhan]

And in doing so you'd be using the same gcd's to heal vs do damage, difference is it'd be damage neutral.

6 gcd, you'd still have 1800 potency of damage if you did 6 casts of Dosis, or 2 Dosis, 2 E Diag, 2 Toxikon.

If 300 extra potency worth of healer damage is "breaking" an encounter, that's a design flaw. But let's be real, that wouldn't happen (breaking the encounter)

But like I said, ALL healers should get this treatment, not just Sage.

Why would you want GCD healing to be limitlessly and entirely free via potency-recuperation on specialized attacks? That'd just make complete bloat of all non-generating heals and non-recuperative attacks, resulting in a somehow even more degen healer kit.

Though I'm not quite a fan of the countersuggestion, I have to agree with Taurus that making any spammable heal potency-neutral would be far worse for kit design.



EDIT: Had left a "not" in there somehow. Meant the opposite.

[Amenara]

And in doing so you'd be using the same gcd's to heal vs do damage, difference is it'd be damage neutral.

6 gcd, you'd still have 1800 potency of damage if you did 6 casts of Dosis, or 2 Dosis, 2 E Diag, 2 Toxikon.

If 300 extra potency worth of healer damage is "breaking" an encounter, that's a design flaw. But let's be real, that wouldn't happen (breaking the encounter)

Because in the vast majority of content, healers are spamming a single button anyway and using ogcd's to heal.

But like I said, ALL healers should get this treatment, not just Sage.

Maybe my math or understanding is wrong but in your scenario you would get ~12 GCDs of E. Diag and ~12 GCDs of Toxicon over a minute of a fight which equates to 3600 pot of healing and 6480 pot of shielding every minute and 7920 pot of toxicon (330p for dosis x2 for toxicon becoming damage neutral x12 damage gcds in a minute) compared to whm getting 2400 pot of healing (assuming aff solus) and 7860p worth of damage in the same minute...

I don't think its the damage that breaks the encounter, its that you get that much gcd healing for the same damage.

[Raven2014]

If 300 extra potency worth of healer damage is "breaking" an encounter, that's a design flaw. But let's be real, that wouldn't happen (breaking the encounter)

I'm not talking about the damage.

I don't think its the damage that breaks the encounter, its that you get that much gcd healing for the same damage.

This, it's the additional shield and healing that will break the encounter. Tanks will literally have the equivalent a semi-permanent 300HOTs and ~450 shield, that will trivialize almost every single tank mechanic or stuffs like Natural Alignment.



The thing that prevent Lily spam is because it's limited supply. The thing that prevent E.D + Toxi spam is the DPS loss, remove that and you might as well delete Dosis. Why use Dosis (which is a hard cast) if you get 300 heal + 180% shield for free without any DPS loss with full mobility as well ? For your suggestion to work there HAVE to be something else that making E.D + Toxi is still a luxury choice over Dosis even if it has no DPS loss. Maybe double or triple the MP cost of E.D to prevent it from being spam.

[Zebraoracle]

He isn't talking about GCD.

You're limited by the amount of Lily generated. Imagine if it's not gated, there would be no reason to do glare, the WHM rotation can simply becomes 3-Lily-1misery-3lily-1misery.

You can cast E-diagonis "as many times as you want". If there is no trade off SGE can just constantly shield eveyrone and simply use Toxion as almost a permanent replacement for Dosis. Your suggestion (of making its neutral) for example, will completely break P7S (double auto) and P8S (NA)

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Also, not my suggestion :P