Quote Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu View Post
So, where does WHM get to shine?

I think my issue might be that when you're playing a job whose value is supposed to extend beyond the personal damage you bring, it's not fun when that value is no better (or is actually worse!) than all the other jobs in the role in every scenario.
WHM shines in this theoretical (and to a certain extent, now too) by being entirely self-reliant for it's damage, and being able to exploit downtime by dumping lilies to 'gain' damage where AST can't. The issue is people see WHM does less at the top end compared to AST, but conveniently forget that it's not just 'AST plays perfectly, gets better damage', it's 'AST and whole party plays perfectly, gets better damage'. I don't see why it's somehow weird to take the stance that, yes, since AST has to rely on it's entire party being gamers, it should have slightly higher top-end potential compared to WHM. WHM gets to shine in prog by not having an RSI inducing 2min window that lines up with every major mechanic like Manifold, is able to buy itself extra damage by dumping lilies in downtime, has Cure 3 as it's ace in the hole for massive HPS pump if it is really needed. Are there things that could be changed to make WHM better/compete better with AST? Of course. It's looking like it's about 5% behind AST (looking at Hegemone, the 'least downtime' fight, at 95%), and it could stand to be maybe at 2% behind. It could also get some QOL changes, such as 2 charges on Assize, 2 charges on Tetra, and I would have preferred Lilybell to be knocked down to 3 stacks, but 90s CD, to give it a niche vs Macrocosmos, that of 'it is available twice as often'. It'd also help address the fact WHM has almost zero OGCD game.

But I don't know if it's the right mindset to ask 'where does WHM get to shine' in this game, where the only metric anyone cares about is damage. If we made WHM have more access to mitigations (Plenary now includes 10% mit, for example), noone's gonna care, because AST does more damage. If we made it so Thin Air makes the spell free and instantcast, so it can instant raise 3 people, 2 of which for free, noone will care, because that's not damage. The only thing we can do is either buff it's personal damage (and then AST mains will ask 'why they have to work so hard, and still don't keep up with WHM'), or add a raidbuff to WHM (and then AST mains will ask 'why is SE adding raidbuff to WHM that was our thing this is homogenization'). I think it's okay to have WHM be X damage, and AST to have 'X damage, plus/minus 2% based on player skill'. I've been on the receiving end of 'played AST, couldn't beat enrage because someone was underperforming', maybe it was partially me, but it was definitely also the RPR that was 1000 damage lower than they could have been. If I was WHM, I'd have probably been able to make up the difference by having more personal DPS, but it was at the time when WHM's MP was really not-good and I had already fully melded my gear with everything but Piety.

As another anecdote, a friend of mine has been doing this tier as SCH (as they do with every tier) and they've been having a great time struggling with the tankbuster bleeds, coming up with mitigation plans for everything etc. I went into my second clear of P8S week 4, on Sage, not knowing any mit plan or anything, just winging it as I went. Cleared phase 1 on the first pull and phase 2 on the third pull. SGE does less damage than SCH, but it doesn't matter, because SGE's Panhaima is perfectly suited for the raid design with all the bleeds. Perhaps what WHM needs is raid design that suits it's kit more than AST's, but the problem is that AST's kit is so plentiful and wide compared to WHM, it can seem like it has a tool for everything. And with Macrocosmos, even 'pump big HPS now' doesn't really give WHM the advantage anymore.