Thoughts on restricting ress more?

[vanaii]

If you need more than, say, three in-combat raises you probably deserve the wipe anyway. 30+ raises on E4N deserves a wipe.

[Deveryn]

Not at all, in fact I’m not talking about death there but damage down and weakness. Bosses are both too easy and too precise. It becomes a dance of stand on this spot. Ok stand on this spot. You got clipped? Be a gimp for 30 seconds but still easily kill it. Uhh mixed signals anyone?

In WOW BECAUSE deaths mean a wipe, the developers are limited in how tight they can make certain windows. How pixel perfect they can require you to be. When you can instantly be scraped off the floor, that limitation on design is gone.

Regardless save the hostility and the personal attacks, I’m here to gauge others opinions. If you oppose this line of thinking I highly suggest you stop trolling and start providing feedback because Criterion dungeons are fairly obviously a test run of this concept.

Criterion's the test?

I invite you to check out Baldesion's Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae (Savage).

People are actually being fairly polite here, though you are coming in talking about removing res when you had a rough time in a normal raid, which isn't the most difficult content. If you want to gauge opinions, you're going to find some on more than just this idea with what you've presented.

[Kes13a]

OP, as a healer main, I am trying to determine your actual issue or desire.

it sounds more like you want to restrict or remove rezzes, because they make things.. too "easy"?

if you wouldnt mind, please clarify what you are actually wanting.

[Jeeqbit]

Rezzes are rarely enough to save a run in Unreal/Extreme/Savage. They're pretty fine elsewhere.

Rez is usually fine in extreme, especially if people aren't the lowest possible item level and have good damage. Unreal varies because it syncs everyone to almost minimum item level, but if we use Ultima's Bane as an example, people could die all the time and get a rez and you still wouldn't see enrage.

I agree it's usually not fine in Savage because everyone needs to be alive for almost every cast and the DPS checks are tighter.

Not at all, in fact I’m not talking about death there but damage down and weakness.

When you die, you've always had your damage reduced, even before we had red mages and that is to make beating enrage harder when mistakes are made. Enrages only happen in high-end duties mostly.

The damage downs used to just be vuln stacks, but the design shifted sometime in Stormblood through Shadowbringers to give damage downs instead so that it's easier to practice mechanics later in the fight, even when mistakes are made. But the intention of the developers is that the damage downs prevent you from beating enrage.

Of course, it becomes easier to beat enrage even with the damage downs as you gear up, so if you attempt these fights later in the tier or when they are no longer current, then the enrage cast is not going to be an issue.

[Raven2014]

Not at all, in fact I’m not talking about death there but damage down and weakness. Bosses are both too easy and too precise. It becomes a dance of stand on this spot. Ok stand on this spot. You got clipped? Be a gimp for 30 seconds but still easily kill it. Uhh mixed signals anyone?

That's only the case after the gear reach a point where it can over-compensate for player mistake. At the start when everyone still at minimum ilvl a few deaths still gonna make you hard-enrage. Heck, even now in P7S/P8S even with less than a handful of deaths gonna still make a sub 620 party hit hard enrage.

Yes the more gears you have the more forgiving the DPS gonna become, because you don't take a party full of T8 in WoW into Naxx and complain the first wing is too easy do you?

In WOW BECAUSE deaths mean a wipe, the developers are limited in how tight they can make certain windows. How pixel perfect they can require you to be. When you can instantly be scraped off the floor, that limitation on design is gone.

Uh no ... I don't know what WOW look like these days, but back when I played it (Release up to Cata) those statements simply not true. Warlock Soul Stone and Combat Res is a thing. Also the normal raid is designed with a significant buffer. A normal 25men raid only need 16-18 competent players to carry the rest. I remember my first kill of Heigan the Unclean (?may misremember him with another boss) back in the days were with just 4 players, 2 tanks and 2 healers because all the DPS got killed within the first minute of the fight. After a few resets with the same result, the leader decided just let those who know how to do the dance kill him, and we did it in a pull that lasted almost 30min.


Now Heroic Raid WoW is a different story where precision would be required and would be comparable to min-ilvl savage of FF14. The point is no all content are challenge and death = wipe in wow, in fact that's only applicable to the highest level content of WoW.

Regardless save the hostility and the personal attacks, I’m here to gauge others opinions. If you oppose this line of thinking I highly suggest you stop trolling and start providing feedback because Criterion dungeons are fairly obviously a test run of this concept.

I'll be blunt, your mention of "good number" rubbed me the wrong way, so I gave it a very blunt response. Because that reason sounds rather selfish to me, and like I said there have been players carry that selfishness into the actual runs. Last week one of the PF I was in had to leave and kick a player who refuse to take the res because - quote: "I have no interest in taking a res if I die within the 2 minutes of the fight".


No one trolling you, as far as I can see from all the comment, they generally disagree with you though, is that constitute as trolling?

As far as experimenting ... well, it's new content, so it goes without saying they are experimental something. But like another had said, you may think the way you think because you haven't really explored all the high and low of content yet.


- Ultimate fights: these are the hardest content in the game. And res for the most part is just a useful tool to let the group push as far as possible to learn the fight. In ultimate for the most part, even just one death would already be fatal unless it falls under a very lucky window.

- The relic savage dungeon: Baldesion's Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae. Especially the former, it was designed similar to WoW raid structure with multiple bosses in a wing with mob/corridors in between. Res both in and out side of combat is severely limited and expensive. I had many Aresnal run that got abandoned because the ressers ran out of "supply".

But these contents are designed and intended for the most diligent players, these contents even at their peak are something the majority of the players wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. If you want the kind of challenge you seek I highly recommend those.

[VictorSpoils]

Rez is usually fine in extreme, especially if people aren't the lowest possible item level and have good damage. Unreal varies because it syncs everyone to almost minimum item level, but if we use Ultima's Bane as an example, people could die all the time and get a rez and you still wouldn't see enrage.

It's not just DPS checks for this. In fact, it's rarely that. Most of the wipes are runs that snowball out of control with people dying one by one. It could be panic, or just the inability to do party mechanics, or both. Sephirot and Endsinger are the key examples.

[EnigmaticDodo]

Rezzes are rarely enough to save a run in Unreal/Extreme/Savage. They're pretty fine elsewhere.

Yeah, I was going to say; if you mess up in higher end content (savage, some ultimates), you typically just wiped the entire party.

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To the OP:

I do understand the complaint you have here about being able to force your way through, but I don't know how people would feel about the game filtering them in what is supposed to be story mode content.

I personally want filters to exist, but then you're alienating people.

[SassyAssassin]

I love it when a bunch of people die, I swiftcast one and hard-rez another and until they get up I can sip my coffee in peace. They did not die because I was sipping coffee beforehand.

[angienessyo]

I hope they hardcore restrict raises so RDM can stop being so penalized for having one. I haven't minded the limited rezzes in stuff like Criterion or BA at all. Can I carry casual content when I'm on RDM and I'm above level 64 because of raise? Yes. But does anyone learn anything or improve when I'm rezzing them 5 times? Probably not. It's really not that much of a benefit outside of content without an enrage where you can just drag people to the finish line with a RDM, and I don't think being dragged to the finish line is all that fun for anyone.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm going to assume you don't play a healer. I appreciate my backup rezzes because PUGs are often pear shaped and they can mean the difference between success and failure when we have those classes. The reason you can see something like that now in Eden Titan is because we over ilevel that content enough that it can be downed with multiple people down. That wasn't the case when it was current. Rezzes are fine. If you're really that opposed to them, make parties with like-minded people and intentionally limit your rezzes.

And we see more damage down because dps and others were too happy to stand in everything and didn't care if they died because they were too worried about their numbers. Now they get something that actually makes them do the mechanics.