A game for 4 year olds

[SannaR]

Gee, I wonder why the death of random side NPCs that we've known for 5 minutes don't really matter.

If they don't matter then why even show their deaths? Why have one of the mantras the WoL uses to continue their fight still be For those we have lost. Those who we can still yet save? Not showing them would probably have more people complaining about the lack of deaths. If a nameless nobody's death doesn't matter then why should the death of someone you know?

[KariTheFox]

[SannaR]

Yeah, that's kinda the thing about calling a story 'bloodless' or 'lacking death'; there's a bunch of different, mostly arbitrary ways to declare that certain deaths 'don't count'. Hell, even I do it; I consider Dragon Age: Origins a pretty death-free game, because while it has a high bodycount barely any of them are characters that actually matter to anybody, it's basically just a throng of bodies to set the tone and setting. But yeah, that's why I mentioned that Endwalker's no slouch in terms of both named and unnamed NPC deaths; if one of those doesn't count to you, the other should.

And I think it should also be noted that FFXIII has perhaps the most egregious usage of 'fight against stated inevitable fact but winning because of Determination' in the entire series at the end. At least with FFXIV it gets conceptual with the help of a zone and concepts that really help it make that actually work, while XIII basically just goes 'no, they believed hard enough to get a good ending anyway'.

I consider XIII's sequels better than the original (in no small part because XIII-2's ending includes the characters trying to do the 'fight fate with conviction' thing and failing miserably, which is very funny), but I'm fully aware that to a lot of people, saying 'FFXIII's sequels were better' is a claim met with great skepticism, because anyone who can say it played multiple FFXIII games.

Yeah XIII had a divine intervention instance that ended up saving the group but screwing over everything else. You're going to tell me they all don't get to turn into monsters just because two of them somehow manage to do a thing they sort of failed to do last time all cause they gave a big enough F you to the rules that made an actual God feel the need to break the rules for them? My main gripe with XIII-2 is actually that death at the end. I mean you have one character that isn’t shown for most of the game to have an eye of Etro and then gets told they're the same as all Yuels. Has only one single eye and has only one vision and dies. Yet how many Yuels ended up having multiple visions? I call bull. I do wonder how the XV that was to be part of XIII's world would have fit. Even though I have watched some things that tried to explain how it fit I just don't get it after wtf Lighting Returns was. I would love to beat thar game but I'm not great at the combat and I feel the clock runs too quickly. If it was more as to how the one in Majora's Mask then I'd probably feel like I didn't need to use a guide can could figure out what to do on my own.

[Kazemon15]

Pretty much, thank you.

Such a horrible person he is. Not just a troll, but a legit horrible person who has no compassion and empathy.

[RyuDragnier]

I’ve told people in real life about how EW tried to pull off its messaging. They were not appreciative of it. I do not believe that the people who defend its messaging have experienced loss in their lives or if they have they definitely didn’t process it like a normal human being.

You want to go there, let's go there. I lost my aunt the first week of Endwalker, and found out during the cutscene with Venat after the trial. Less than a month later, I lost one of my uncles. The very next month (February 9th of this year), my father died. The expansion resonated with me after my aunt's death, and I'd say I'm far less of a train wreck I would have been with the deaths if not for how well they pulled off the expansion's themes. Also, you get an ignore from me for even daring to cross that fucking line, Aveyond.

[sidurgu-12]

Yeah XIII had a divine intervention instance that ended up saving the group but screwing over everything else. You're going to tell me they all don't get to turn into monsters just because two of them somehow manage to do a thing they sort of failed to do last time all cause they gave a big enough F you to the rules that made an actual God feel the need to break the rules for them? My main gripe with XIII-2 is actually that death at the end. I mean you have one character that isn’t shown for most of the game to have an eye of Etro and then gets told they're the same as all Yuels. Has only one single eye and has only one vision and dies. Yet how many Yuels ended up having multiple visions? I call bull. I do wonder how the XV that was to be part of XIII's world would have fit. Even though I have watched some things that tried to explain how it fit I just don't get it after wtf Lighting Returns was. I would love to beat thar game but I'm not great at the combat and I feel the clock runs too quickly. If it was more as to how the one in Majora's Mask then I'd probably feel like I didn't need to use a guide can could figure out what to do on my own.

From what i understand the connection was mainly through Fabula nova crystalis which shared an overarching lore. Totally biased but im glad fnc ended since the games kept getting darker each game.

[Kozh]

If they don't matter then why even show their deaths? Why have one of the mantras the WoL uses to continue their fight still be For those we have lost. Those who we can still yet save? Not showing them would probably have more people complaining about the lack of deaths. If a nameless nobody's death doesn't matter then why should the death of someone you know?

Because the game tried to cheaply manipulate you? They aren't brave enough to kill characters people truly care, like the twins or waifu ysthola, so they killed the safe ones instead. Has been that way since post HW, as you can see by characters who died and sidelined. Papalymo, minfilia, lyse, arenvald, and random citizens.

Also funny how you said that non named npc death doesn't matter to "certain" crowd. If you try to bring up those npc deaths in reddit or other place, most of the time they'll go "lol, who?". And we know reddit is the place for ffxiv simps.

[KageTokage]

Well, if there is one theme from the expansion this topic has certainly demonstrated, it's that different people can have drastically different emotional responses to the same situations be they positive or negative.

I wouldn't say I find character deaths absolutely mandatory to making me emotionally invested in a story, though I was still expecting to have more of a...lasting impression from a world-ending apocalypse instead of having to constantly remind myself that one was happening in the first place.

[Rannie]

You want to go there, let's go there. I lost my aunt the first week of Endwalker, and found out during the cutscene with Venat after the trial. Less than a month later, I lost one of my uncles. The very next month (February 9th of this year), my father died. The expansion resonated with me after my aunt's death, and I'd say I'm far less of a train wreck I would have been with the deaths if not for how well they pulled off the expansion's themes. Also, you get an ignore from me for even daring to cross that fucking line, Aveyond.

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss Ryu

Hell it wasn't so recent but I lost my mother four years ago from congestive heart failure and I got to watch her give up on her will to live as I was one of her care takers for almost 10 years. But a lot of endwalker resonated with me .

[Kozh]

Also what is "normal human being"? EVERYONE experiences loss differently. If YOU truly experienced loss, you would know that.

Oh actually I think it's perfectly normal human thing. People see what they want to see when it comes to something they're passionate about, so even if the game is trash in its own theme and message, people will make it up in their head. It's just copium in the end.

What do I even say to this? You honestly believe that people who like a video game's story and themes haven't experienced loss? Am I being trolled right now?

You do realize your side has been doing the same thing all this time? In fact people like you are the one who started it. When someone said they can't relate to EW, the most used response is "Well, if you have experience loss, you'll appreciate/relate to it"

I won't be this spiteful towards the game if EW simps didn't try to gaslight me into feeling bad in the first place.