A game for 4 year olds

[SannaR]

Yeah, that's kinda the thing about calling a story 'bloodless' or 'lacking death'; there's a bunch of different, mostly arbitrary ways to declare that certain deaths 'don't count'. Hell, even I do it; I consider Dragon Age: Origins a pretty death-free game, because while it has a high bodycount barely any of them are characters that actually matter to anybody, it's basically just a throng of bodies to set the tone and setting. But yeah, that's why I mentioned that Endwalker's no slouch in terms of both named and unnamed NPC deaths; if one of those doesn't count to you, the other should.

And I think it should also be noted that FFXIII has perhaps the most egregious usage of 'fight against stated inevitable fact but winning because of Determination' in the entire series at the end. At least with FFXIV it gets conceptual with the help of a zone and concepts that really help it make that actually work, while XIII basically just goes 'no, they believed hard enough to get a good ending anyway'.

I consider XIII's sequels better than the original (in no small part because XIII-2's ending includes the characters trying to do the 'fight fate with conviction' thing and failing miserably, which is very funny), but I'm fully aware that to a lot of people, saying 'FFXIII's sequels were better' is a claim met with great skepticism, because anyone who can say it played multiple FFXIII games.

Yeah XIII had a divine intervention instance that ended up saving the group but screwing over everything else. You're going to tell me they all don't get to turn into monsters just because two of them somehow manage to do a thing they sort of failed to do last time all cause they gave a big enough F you to the rules that made an actual God feel the need to break the rules for them? My main gripe with XIII-2 is actually that death at the end. I mean you have one character that isn’t shown for most of the game to have an eye of Etro and then gets told they're the same as all Yuels. Has only one single eye and has only one vision and dies. Yet how many Yuels ended up having multiple visions? I call bull. I do wonder how the XV that was to be part of XIII's world would have fit. Even though I have watched some things that tried to explain how it fit I just don't get it after wtf Lighting Returns was. I would love to beat thar game but I'm not great at the combat and I feel the clock runs too quickly. If it was more as to how the one in Majora's Mask then I'd probably feel like I didn't need to use a guide can could figure out what to do on my own.

[sidurgu-12]

Yeah XIII had a divine intervention instance that ended up saving the group but screwing over everything else. You're going to tell me they all don't get to turn into monsters just because two of them somehow manage to do a thing they sort of failed to do last time all cause they gave a big enough F you to the rules that made an actual God feel the need to break the rules for them? My main gripe with XIII-2 is actually that death at the end. I mean you have one character that isn’t shown for most of the game to have an eye of Etro and then gets told they're the same as all Yuels. Has only one single eye and has only one vision and dies. Yet how many Yuels ended up having multiple visions? I call bull. I do wonder how the XV that was to be part of XIII's world would have fit. Even though I have watched some things that tried to explain how it fit I just don't get it after wtf Lighting Returns was. I would love to beat thar game but I'm not great at the combat and I feel the clock runs too quickly. If it was more as to how the one in Majora's Mask then I'd probably feel like I didn't need to use a guide can could figure out what to do on my own.

From what i understand the connection was mainly through Fabula nova crystalis which shared an overarching lore. Totally biased but im glad fnc ended since the games kept getting darker each game.

[Cleretic]

From what i understand the connection was mainly through Fabula nova crystalis which shared an overarching lore. Totally biased but im glad fnc ended since the games kept getting darker each game.

Yeah, Type-0 especially is... oof. I'm glad that Type-0 exists, largely because its story is good and something that the medium of games tends to avoid. I'd say 'JRPGs especially', but honestly any genre, even the ones that are frequently about wars like strategy and shooters, rarely go that direction and tone. Incidentally, Type-0 is a game that really shows that even in a story that necessitates a bodycount, you don't need that bodycount to include major characters; a single nameless soldier and his chocobo does all the emotional heavy lifting that story needed.

But as much as I like that Type-0 exists, we don't need more Type-0s. Just the one is fine. (Or it would be if the gameplay itself didn't suck and the game actually functioned on modern platforms; I'd like to see it remade just so it's playable and not janky as hell.)

[RukoBoshi]

Gee, I wonder why the death of random side NPCs that we've known for 5 minutes don't really matter.

It does matter, it established the stakes in the story.
Or you're going to tell me the death of the ancients during the Amaurot dungeon weren't effective in that regard ?

Because the death of these randoms NPC hit me hard, and i only knew them for 1 hour before Amaurot. It did felt like it mattered.

Seeing the people of Thavnair die horribly after spending time there first was absolutely effective in upping the stakes, just like in that dungeon.

[sidurgu-12]

It does matter, it established the stakes in the story.
Or your going to tell me the death of the ancients during the Amaurot dungeon weren't effective in that regard ?

Because the death of these randoms NPC hit me hard, and i only knew them for 1 hour before Amaurot. It did felt like it mattered.

Seeing the people of Thavnair die horribly after spending time there first was absolutely effective in upping the stakes, just like in that dungeon.

The thavnair dungeon hurt soo much. Each rerun i keep hoping for a way to save that family.

[KariTheFox]

I think if the only reason you can give for why more characters ought to die is to "prove" that the story has stakes, you might want to go back and rethink what you want out of the story.

[aveyond-dreams]

I think if the only reason you can give for why more characters ought to die is to "prove" that the story has stakes, you might want to go back and rethink what you want out of the story.

For the cast to not be made up of immortal and invincible nobodies whose sacrifices are invalidated within the span of a half hour in an expansion where the stakes for them should have been the highest. Especially if these writers were going to be so tone deaf as to try and preach how these characters represent hope winning over despair. This isn’t a story that resonates with people who have experienced the real sort of problems Endwalker is so eager to tell people to forge ahead instead of addressing in a realistic way.

Given all that’s been said and done I fully believe that a decent chunk of this playerbase especially those in this thread are willing to accept pretty much anything so long as it’s sanctioned by Yoshi, so they lose nothing if those of us wanting a more mature world and story get our way. They’ll play regardless. Whereas EW caused no small amount of us to quit with me being one of the last holdouts because I want to have money in case of the slim chance that 7.0 isn’t a disaster like this expansion was.

[KariTheFox]

I am fairly certain that plenty of the people that Endwalker resonated with have in fact, experienced "real problems".

[aveyond-dreams]

I am fairly certain that plenty of the people that Endwalker resonated with have in fact, experienced "real problems".

I’ve told people in real life about how EW tried to pull off its messaging. They were not appreciative of it. I do not believe that the people who defend its messaging have experienced loss in their lives or if they have they definitely didn’t process it like a normal human being.

[Kazemon15]

I’ve told people in real life about how EW tried to pull off its messaging. They were not appreciative of it. I do not believe that the people who defend its messaging have experienced loss in their lives or if they have they definitely didn’t process it like a normal human being.

I am 100% sure the way you told other people is a twisted version of what it really was. And people who like its story, myself included have experienced loss. You're pretty high up there if you think that. I have lost my father, mother, grandmother, 2 aunts, a cousin and 3 pets all in a span of 5 years. EW resonated with me *because* it showed loss but also showed hope, which was its main theme, so get off your dumb high horse that you're the ONLY ONE who understand what "loss" is and not anyone else, little boy.

Also what is "normal human being"? EVERYONE experiences loss differently. If YOU truly experienced loss, you would know that.