6.28 Patch Notes

[Aikaal]

Summoner isn't invalid right now... Not like it's the most used caster by a massive margin, but ok? as important damage output is SMN is proof that not always the top damage job will be chosen.

Not saying it shouldn't be buffed but BLM changes were also needed, likely not even enough because people will still use Smn way more then other casters. RDM wont be used as much still.

I meant for speed clears mainly. In prog, its still fine between smn/rdm yeah.

[Rithy255]

I meant for speed clears mainly. In prog, its still fine between smn/rdm yeah.

Speed clears shouldn't really be a issue or focus of balancing really, Theirs always going to be small inbalances and for speed clears the only thing that matters is damage. Outside of Progression BLM might be slightly better? but at that point it's not going to matter, because DPS checks get easier with better gear (something you'll have after clearing) unless your group is a speed run group, but again theirs always going to be a select few "meta jobs" for speed clears, I personally don't see a Issue with that.

It came across (to me) as more in general that BLM would invalidate SMN/RDM in general. But If it's only good at invalidating SMN/RDM for speed optimisations then that's a good point. Because it does, I don't know what the solution would be then to remove utilities on smn/rdm and mobility on smn... which i feel defeats the purpose of having different role types if they're going to bring the same thing and same sort of mobility/utility

Casters are always going to be weird to balance, SMN mobility, both "utilities" smn/rdm give vs damage output on BLM is always going to be a tough balancing act, as you dont want BLM to do so much damage that it makes smn/rdm useless, but you also don't want SMN/RDM utility so strong it invalidates a BLM.

[Anvaire]

Casters are always going to be weird to balance, SMN mobility, both "utilities" smn/rdm give vs damage output on BLM is always going to be a tough balancing act, as you dont want BLM to do so much damage that it makes smn/rdm useless, but you also don't want SMN/RDM utility so strong it invalidates a BLM.

I agree, but i also think that SMN has too much mobility at the moment. I do kind of understand why it has so much mobility, but ultimately it needs to be toned down along with rotational rigidity. But then, i kinda think that SMN's current rotation, while is viable and usable, does need some adjustment to weave in more complexity. It doesnt kill the job, but it would improve the experience.

Bottom line is Smn is a caster but fails to feel like a caster or have the general impact of one. Even if (IMO) it is the flashyiest of the casters. The buffs given today are welcomed, but do not fundamentally address any of the classes core issues... ignoring the current community split of opinion of what SMN should or should not be design visionwise.

[Rithy255]

I agree, but i also think that SMN has too much mobility at the moment. I do kind of understand why it has so much mobility, but ultimately it needs to be toned down along with rotational rigidity. But then, i kinda think that SMN's current rotation, while is viable and usable, does need some adjustment to weave in more complexity. It doesnt kill the job, but it would improve the experience.

Bottom line is Smn is a caster but fails to feel like a caster or have the general impact of one. Even if (IMO) it is the flashyiest of the casters. The buffs given today are welcomed, but do not fundamentally address any of the classes core issues... ignoring the current community split of opinion of what SMN should or should not be design visionwise.

Didn't bahamut for smn used to have cast times? correct me if I'm wrong here I didn't really play a lot of old summoner or new summoner. Maybe that would allow it to feel different from phoenix and give SMN more casting time, I don't know if it would be the perfect solution though.

I can agree with less mobility on smn just to a point where it's still the most mobile caster I like the idea of giving jobs certain "niches" that make them stand out from others, but at the same time I think niches need to be balanced in a way that doesn't make it too imbalanced

Here's what generally I think we want to avoid when job balancing.
1. Making jobs too similar, fitting practically no purpose other then being a rotational reskin, this is something how I view current melees, I'm generally not a fan of how melees currently function, somewhat with tanks too I believe tanks should be given more identity and more support different abilities, while I think it's hard to balance I rather have a unbalanced game with unique roles then one where the roles function the same.

2. Removing skill expression from certain jobs but also allowing ease of access on other jobs, if a job is "easy to use" that's fine, but we also need more jobs that fill a harder playstyle, maybe granted they give a small reward but more hardcore jobs shouldn't be meta. Also I actually like how Samurai is rewarded for using their defensives "correctly" even if its a small reward it's something that at least makes the job that's generally pretty easy to pick up, give slightly more depth.

3. Big Damage ranges, we should make sure that a job in it's category (tank/healer/dps), stays close to there, ones that offer stronger utility should generally be slightly lower but it shouldn't be enough where bringing a job with more utility makes enrages harsh, I don't think jobs should have utility for free (personally) unless every job had a sort of utility. I personally think even things such as "ranged tax" is fine but its way too much right now, the fact that casters like BLM/RDM are harder to move around then melees also makes me question why casters have a ranged tax.