Healers need an overhaul

[Yeastyloins]

In that specific post of yours I responded to you did no such thing. You even went on to mock White Mages for criticising Lilies being a DPS loss while rattling off how people only care about DPS. If you meant to imply this was only a preference you disliked but didn't actively participate it, then you failed to convey that. Hence why pretty much everyone has replied to you in the manner they have. You've come across as someone who only heals and dislikes being forced to DPS.

With all that said, Semirhage sums it up: FFXIV simply isn't designed to be the game you're asking it to. Spamming boring healing abilities is no different than spamming Glare. Could they add in buffs, debuffs, mitigation and etc? Absolutely. Will they? No. Yoshida has made it painstakingly clear they want healers (and every job, really) to be accessible above all else, difficulty be damned. They aren't going to add in mechanics or systems which make it difficult for little Sally playing her first healer to actually clear content as a healer. Unfortunately, even Savage suffers from this design philosophy. The whole reason people want DPS abilities is because we've all given up on getting anything else. So I'd rather not go a third expansion spamming Glare but sparkier!

So I'm curious then, how do you (or any other healer in this thread) feel about healing in the current savage tier? It seems to me (looking from the outside) that there is more of an emphasis on healing given the number of TB and raid wides that apply heavy dots on the party in addition to damage events that seem to only be there to strip shields before a heavier hit (think the sonic screams into a Ruby glow on P5s). Especially when it comes to TBs given most tanks are unable to simply invuln it and call it a day and need to use their own mitigation to lessen the subsequent bleed/dot.

[AnotherPerson]

Adding 1-2 more DPS moves per healer except Sage (Sorry, they have more attacks than the rest of us) also wouldn't break the bank.

As if anything changes with Sage getting more DPS skills.

WHM has:
Glare, Dia, Holy, Assize, Afflatus Misery. = 5 skills
SCH has:
Broil, Biolysis, Ruin II, Art of War, Energy Drain, Chain Statregem = 6 skills
SGE has:
Dosis, E. Dosis, Dykrasia, Phlegma, Toxikon (3 uses per fight), Pneuma = 6 skills
AST has:
Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Flavor of Card Buff, Divination, Lord of Crowns, Macrocosmos = 7 skills

And even putting Macrocosmos / Pneuma is a bit of a stretch, since it's not a DPS gain in most fights. It's a healing tool first and foremost.

So really, WHM has 5 skills for DPS, SGE has 5 skills, SCH has 6 skills, and AST has 6 skills.

And out of the 4 healers, SGE, SCH has a skill that isn't utilized as a DPS skill. Toxikon only has 3 charges and doesn't regenerate naturally, so it's used for mobility or double weaves. Fishing for it during combat is a DPS loss. Ruin II is a huge DPS loss and just a mobility tool/double weave tool.
AST's Lord of Crowns is not guaranteed since you can just draw Lady of Crowns instead, so it's also not a reliable source of DPS.

In reality, the number of skills you use for DPS is pretty much the same from WHM to SGE to SCH to AST. 5~6 skills.

[Yeastyloins]

I think what people are forgetting to mention regarding WoW is that WoW actually offered multiple styles of healing - there was something for everyone.

You want to be a pure healer? Holy priest and holy paladin (and even then these two are focused on AoE/raid heals and tank heals respectively)
You want to put a ton of HoTs on everyone and giggle as damage can't keep up? Resto druid
You want to be a jack of all trades and still very effective? Resto shaman
You want to heal by DPSing and damage prevention? Disc priest and kind of (not as much anymore from what I've heard) monk
You want to heal by... doing whatever the heck mistweaver monk does? I still don't know how to categorize this one and I've played it and it's fun and it still baffles me.
Who knows what the evoker healing style is going to be like.

Meanwhile you have sage as a supposed "heal by dps" job, which is kind of very misleading, and a worse scholar but with less jank.
You have white mage and astro with very similar play styles, only thing really separating them is astro cards.

That's it. The healers feel so incredibly homogenized compared to other games that offer actual variety.

On top of having agency what healing style you want to engage in, each of those healers have damage options, some of which can be incredibly powerful and vary between classes. Holy paladin and Disc is almost like adding an additional DPS to your raid or your M+ group depending on the patch, with a Holy paladin build doing DPS levels of burst on the opener with bloodlust at the beginning of Shadowlands. Holy priest have a stun built into their kit which is powerful for fights requiring such. Resto Shaman has a surprising amount of mobility and can burst with good lava burst procs and they have the best interrupt of the healers (longest range and shortest CD). Resto Druid has the option if they are able to do heavy burst damage via Convoke by shifting into moonkin or feral if they do not need to save it for a mechanic.

[Zebraoracle]

Adding 1-2 more DPS moves per healer except Sage (Sorry, they have more attacks than the rest of us) also wouldn't break the bank.

Excuse me what?

Sage has six damage dealing spells, tied with astrologian. White mage and scholar both have five. Sage and astrologian only have six because I'm including pneuma and macrocosmos in that. If anything, sage should have MORE damage dealing abilities than the others because they are the supposed "heal by DPSing" job. Your proposal makes it so sage has LESS damage dealing options than the others, how is that remotely fair, especially with, again, sage being touted as the "DPS healer"?

[Raven2014]

In that specific post of yours I responded to you did no such thing. You even went on to mock White Mages for criticising Lilies being a DPS loss while rattling off how people only care about DPS.

Because it is fact. This is the samething as someone accused me of "gaslighting" for simply saying "green DPS".

There were no issue with WHM at the beginning of 6.0 if you look at from a healing respective. It has strong heal, decent MP economy if one ultilize its full kit, while still contribute meaningful DPS. In the absent of FFlog and players are inclined to play the class as it's designed, there would be no problem because there would be no reason not to. The minimum DPS loss wouldn't make or break even the hardest encounter. It's a simple, comfy healing class with plenty of mobility.

That issue was 100% a self-created, artificially constructed by the community because of a small difference that makes no difference in any in-game context, but some ranking on a third party website.

[RyuDragnier]

As if anything changes with Sage getting more DPS skills.

WHM has:
Glare, Dia, Holy, Assize, Afflatus Misery. = 5 skills
SCH has:
Broil, Biolysis, Ruin II, Art of War, Energy Drain, Chain Statregem = 6 skills
SGE has:
Dosis, E. Dosis, Dykrasia, Phlegma, Toxikon (3 uses per fight), Pneuma = 6 skills
AST has:
Malefic, Combust, Gravity, Flavor of Card Buff, Divination, Lord of Crowns, Macrocosmos = 7 skills

And even putting Macrocosmos / Pneuma is a bit of a stretch, since it's not a DPS gain in most fights. It's a healing tool first and foremost.

So really, WHM has 5 skills for DPS, SGE has 5 skills, SCH has 6 skills, and AST has 6 skills.

And out of the 4 healers, SGE, SCH has a skill that isn't utilized as a DPS skill. Toxikon only has 3 charges and doesn't regenerate naturally, so it's used for mobility or double weaves. Fishing for it during combat is a DPS loss. Ruin II is a huge DPS loss and just a mobility tool/double weave tool.
AST's Lord of Crowns is not guaranteed since you can just draw Lady of Crowns instead, so it's also not a reliable source of DPS.

In reality, the number of skills you use for DPS is pretty much the same from WHM to SGE to SCH to AST. 5~6 skills.

Holy - AoE, not used in single target fights
Assize - ogCD
Misery - only after 3 lily skills used
Dia - DoT
Glare - spammed in a single target fight.

Chain Strategem - 2 minute "buff"
Energy Drain - uses one of your healing resources
Art of War - AoE, not used in single target fights
Ruin II - only used for movement to avoid downtime
Biolysis - DoT
Broil - spammed in a single target fight

Macrocosmos - healing move, why are you listing it here?
Lord of Crowns - Random on whether you get this or Lady, can only get a chance at one every minute
Divination - 2 minute buff, why are you listing it here?
Cards - WHY ARE YOU LISTING THESE HERE!?
Gravity - AoE, not used for single target
Combust - DoT
Malefic - spammed in a single target fight

You see the issue? Only 1 DoT, and only 1 spell you spam.

[Deceptus]

Misery - only after 3 lily skills used

And a minimum 60s CD (Lily timer)

Cards - WHY ARE YOU LISTING THESE HERE!?.

For some the same reason they listed Chain Stratagem as a "DPS ability". . . reasons.

They're trying to show personal DPS options on healers and then for some reason include group buffs in there to pad out the numbers.

[AnotherPerson]

Holy - AoE, not used in single target fights
Assize - ogCD
Misery - only after 3 lily skills used
Dia - DoT
Glare - spammed in a single target fight.

Chain Strategem - 2 minute "buff"
Energy Drain - uses one of your healing resources
Art of War - AoE, not used in single target fights
Ruin II - only used for movement to avoid downtime
Biolysis - DoT
Broil - spammed in a single target fight

Macrocosmos - healing move, why are you listing it here?
Lord of Crowns - Random on whether you get this or Lady, can only get a chance at one every minute
Divination - 2 minute buff, why are you listing it here?
Cards - WHY ARE YOU LISTING THESE HERE!?
Gravity - AoE, not used for single target
Combust - DoT
Malefic - spammed in a single target fight

You see the issue? Only 1 DoT, and only 1 spell you spam.

Sage - WHM / SCH / AST
Dosis - Glare/Broil/Malefic
E. Dosis - Dia/Biolysis/Combust
Dykrasia - Holy / Art of War / Gravity
Phlegma - Assize / Energy Drain / Earthly Star
Toxikon - Afflatus Misery / Ruin II / Lords

[No buff] - [No buff] / Chain (1) / Cards & Divination (2)

Do you see the point of what you're saying? SGE is literally the same as every other healer job. Just because Phlegma has 2 charges, they both have a 45 second cooldown timer. It's not going to change the grand scheme of DPS buttons you press just because one is on the GCD every 45 seconds and one is a oGCD every 45 seconds. People wanted Sage to have Toxikon II to be an oGCD initially as well. Is there really a difference in the DPS tools between healers that another healer does not have?

Toxikon / Ruin II / Lords all have some detriment with them, maybe it be DPS loss, randomness, or effective number of usages. Originally, Afflatus Misery was here too since it was a DPS loss to use, but now Afflatus Misery is a DPS neutral spell / slight gain when held for buff windows.

I included Macrocosmos because it served the same point as Pneuma. It's a healing spell first that doesn't do more damage than their main nuke counterparts, but only their AoE (40% reduction) is a slight DPS gain over their AoE during trash pulls. It's not much worth mentioning, but I brought it up in case people specifically brought that up as a "DPS spell".

[Deusteele]

Reduce the availability of oGCD's and weaken the power of GCD heals. Increase the rate and potency of Raid-Wide damage from bosses. Make players use their full healing kit regularly.

Remove the focused healing role completely and turn it into a support role based around Haste/Brave/Faith/Shell/Protect/Regen. Provide a full dps rotation to be used while buffs are ticking on players.

Neither option is going to be happy with the decision, but Yoshida put himself on the spot when he catered to Savage players and the spreadsheet playstyle.

[Sunhwapark]

Would love seeing more stuff like the Heartless Archangel mechanic in O8s.